On 28/02/2017 18:37, wrote:
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 28/02/2017 16:58, wrote:
In article , d ()
wrote:

Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?

Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads
it, calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for
Contactless it reads it, and I believe checks with the back end
before allowing it, or if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking
up the NFC chip and carrying out the relevant authentication steps -
again nothing to do with Moore's law.

Everything to do with it, I can assure you.

Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless card
is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or die size?

In message , at 10:58:38
on Tue, 28 Feb 2017, remarked:
No, because it has zero credit on it.

Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.

Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?

Currently chips have transistors about 50 atoms across. Get much
smaller, and quantum effects start to kick in. And heat dissipation
is a huge issue. Moore's Law is slowing down.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:23:16 on Tue, 28
Feb 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.

If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
--
Roland Perry

On 2017-03-01 08:37:28 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 16:23:16 on Tue, 28
Feb 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.

If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).

It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 08:44:37 on Wed, 1 Mar
2017, Neil Williams remarked:

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend
it by travelling.

If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).

It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.

OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.
--
Roland Perry

One change will be that PAYG balances will no longer be displayed at the gateline or bus reader
(although low balance warnings might be pushed to gatelines and bus readers) which is one reason
why TfL want their own app up and running.

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 09:21:10 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
00:45:50 on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, remarked:
On Sunday, 26 February 2017 17:27:52 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.

There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".

Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.

I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here. And even though I use an alias I know its not
foolproof and if someone wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of
effort they could and then they'll know all my views which may or may not be
a good fit with Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most
people these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.

--
Spud

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 01:40:04 -0800 (PST)
Matthew Dickinson wrote:
One change will be that PAYG balances will no longer be displayed at the
gateline or bus reader
(although low balance warnings might be pushed to gatelines and bus readers)
which is one reason
why TfL want their own app up and running.

So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.

--
Spud

On 2017-03-01 10:19:02 +0000, d said:

So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.

There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 09:43:29 on Wed, 1 Mar
2017, d remarked:

Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.

There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".

Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.

I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here.

Yes, it is, and they could.

And even though I use an alias I know its not foolproof and if someone
wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of effort they could and
then they'll know all my views which may or may not be a good fit with
Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most people
these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.

Which proves my point - until senior managers take an attitude of "there
but for the grace of god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings,
there is a risk. And despite Usenet being more widespread since the
eternal september, I don't think many senior managers have reached that
yet.
--
Roland Perry