Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\04\02 15:57, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\04\02 15:28, Recliner wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 10:31:43 +0100, Clive Page wrote:
My own suggestion for a transport oddity would be London's only
funicular railway on the eastern side of the northern bank of the wobbly
(Millennium) bridge. One could call it a sloping lift, but it really is
a cable-hauled funicular, just a very short one. Best of all, it's free.

There is one at Greenford Station too.


That's not a funicular, just an inclined lift.


Having used them both, I can see no difference, except the Greenford one
is indoors, and the Blackfriars one is a shoddy embarrassment.

Shouldn't a funicular railway have two cars that (approximately) balance
each other, one going up while the other descends?

They both have counterweights which do that, between the tracks.

It's the yellow thing in Greenford.
https://youtu.be/sxScXvX1Dv4?t=1m21s

Light-coloured thing in Blackfriars
https://youtu.be/b72PyyrFeYI?t=17s

Yes, just like any lift. But I've always thought a funicular needed to have
two balanced cars, not just one car and a counterweight.

The inclined lift at Greenford doesn't purport to be anything other than a
normal lift, which just happens to run on an angled track.


The previous Blackfriars lift in the same alignment seems to have had no
visible counterweight.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 15:04:22 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\03\31 12:49, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

Regarding the Overground, you should experience the peculiar DMU on
the GOBLIN before it dissapears.

There's nothing peculiar about the Goblin trains. There are quite a few
other diesel trains in London: in particular, the Uckfield trains to and
from London Bridge, which are not going to be got rid of any time soon,
are very similar to the Goblin trains, although I think they (Class 171)
probably have toilets and the Goblin ones (Class 170) probably don't.

As Recliner said, the GOBLIN trains are class 172.

Two mates commented, on different occations, that the GOBLIN train
felt different than others they had been on. I have investigated and
172 has different bogies than other Turbostars and mechanical
transmission rather than hydraulic - gear changes can be distinctly
heard as the trains accelerate and decelerate (Wikipedia). One mate
said it felt like a bus.

--
jhk

On 2017\04\02 17:16, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

Two mates commented, on different occations, that the GOBLIN train
felt different than others they had been on. I have investigated and
172 has different bogies than other Turbostars and mechanical
transmission rather than hydraulic - gear changes can be distinctly
heard as the trains accelerate and decelerate (Wikipedia). One mate
said it felt like a bus.

I wonder why they built them like that?

Speaking of peculiar, London has four places where trains switch between
overhead and third rail, namely Acton Central, Mitre Bridge, Drayton
Park and Farringdon/City Thameslink. I have no idea how common
pan-up-pan-down in service is globally. The 313 trains at Drayton Park
very noticeably go though a "turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again" moment.

In article ,
(Jarle Hammen Knudsen) wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 15:04:22 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\03\31 12:49, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

Regarding the Overground, you should experience the peculiar DMU on
the GOBLIN before it dissapears.

There's nothing peculiar about the Goblin trains. There are quite a few
other diesel trains in London: in particular, the Uckfield trains to and
from London Bridge, which are not going to be got rid of any time soon,
are very similar to the Goblin trains, although I think they (Class 171)
probably have toilets and the Goblin ones (Class 170) probably don't.

As Recliner said, the GOBLIN trains are class 172.

Two mates commented, on different occations, that the GOBLIN train
felt different than others they had been on. I have investigated and
172 has different bogies than other Turbostars and mechanical
transmission rather than hydraulic - gear changes can be distinctly
heard as the trains accelerate and decelerate (Wikipedia). One mate
said it felt like a bus.

A mate who didn't travel on many first generation DMUs then. They nearly all
had mechanical transmissions.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2017\04\02 17:16, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

Two mates commented, on different occations, that the GOBLIN train
felt different than others they had been on. I have investigated and
172 has different bogies than other Turbostars and mechanical
transmission rather than hydraulic - gear changes can be distinctly
heard as the trains accelerate and decelerate (Wikipedia). One mate
said it felt like a bus.

I wonder why they built them like that?

Speaking of peculiar, London has four places where trains switch
between overhead and third rail, namely Acton Central, Mitre Bridge,
Drayton Park and Farringdon/City Thameslink. I have no idea how
common pan-up-pan-down in service is globally. The 313 trains at
Drayton Park very noticeably go though a
"turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again" moment.

The 313s use much older dual voltage technology than Electrostars and other
modern trains with AC motors.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 15:52:26 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:


They both have counterweights which do that, between the tracks.

Yes, just like any lift. But I've always thought a funicular needed to have
two balanced cars, not just one car and a counterweight.

The inclined lift at Greenford doesn't purport to be anything other than a
normal lift, which just happens to run on an angled track.


The previous Blackfriars lift in the same alignment seems to have had no
visible counterweight.


The two terms do seem to have become interchangeable to an extent over
the years, even this website on funiculars which some may have seen
before and has been on the www for 20 years seems to allow them under
its definitions, not that one web site is proof of anything.
http://www.funimag.com/Funimag-Definitions.htm

The Funicular dos Guindais in Porto next to lower deck of the Ponte
D. LuÃ*s bridge raises an interesting quandary.
It was opened in 2004 with two counter balanced cars ( on the
alignment of one that had closed around a century before.)
In 2015 road works encroached on the area of the lower station, how
they affected it I don't really know but the funicular got altered to
a single cabin with a counter weight, at the time of my visit in early
2016 it was still like that as seen in this you tube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTC3u_Fm_YE

In a video taken this year it is two cars again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HBpPTYXCpI

Does that mean at the time of my visit it was no longer a funicular
but a very long inclined lift but now it is a funicular again?

I suppose so, though it's obviously engineered as a funicular, complete
with passing loop.

Speaking of peculiar, London has four places where trains switch between
overhead and third rail, namely Acton Central, Mitre Bridge, Drayton
Park and Farringdon/City Thameslink. I have no idea how common
pan-up-pan-down in service is globally. The 313 trains at Drayton Park
very noticeably go though a "turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again" moment.

I don't think it's that rare. In the US, the New York MTA New Haven
line commuter rail switches at Mt Vernon and the Boston MBTA transit
blue line switches near Logan Airport.

For added confusion, Penn Station in New York has both third rail and
OHLE, on different services but sometimes on the same tracks.

R's,
John

On 2017\04\02 18:26, wrote:

The two terms do seem to have become interchangeable to an extent over
the years, even this website on funiculars which some may have seen
before and has been on the www for 20 years seems to allow them under
its definitions, not that one web site is proof of anything.
http://www.funimag.com/Funimag-Definitions.htm

The Funicular dos Guindais in Porto next to lower deck of the Ponte
D. Luís bridge raises an interesting quandary.
It was opened in 2004 with two counter balanced cars ( on the
alignment of one that had closed around a century before.)
In 2015 road works encroached on the area of the lower station, how
they affected it I don't really know but the funicular got altered to
a single cabin with a counter weight, at the time of my visit in early
2016 it was still like that as seen in this you tube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTC3u_Fm_YE

In a video taken this year it is two cars again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HBpPTYXCpI

Does that mean at the time of my visit it was no longer a funicular
but a very long inclined lift but now it is a funicular again?

Surely it's more likely that encroachment on the central passing loop
would force a change rather than encroachment on one of the termini.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\04\02 18:26, wrote:

The two terms do seem to have become interchangeable to an extent over
the years, even this website on funiculars which some may have seen
before and has been on the www for 20 years seems to allow them under
its definitions, not that one web site is proof of anything.
http://www.funimag.com/Funimag-Definitions.htm

The Funicular dos Guindais in Porto next to lower deck of the Ponte
D. LuÃ*s bridge raises an interesting quandary.
It was opened in 2004 with two counter balanced cars ( on the
alignment of one that had closed around a century before.)
In 2015 road works encroached on the area of the lower station, how
they affected it I don't really know but the funicular got altered to
a single cabin with a counter weight, at the time of my visit in early
2016 it was still like that as seen in this you tube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTC3u_Fm_YE

In a video taken this year it is two cars again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HBpPTYXCpI

Does that mean at the time of my visit it was no longer a funicular
but a very long inclined lift but now it is a funicular again?

Surely it's more likely that encroachment on the central passing loop
would force a change rather than encroachment on one of the termini.

The passing loop was still functional during the inclined lift phase, as
can be seen in the video. It didn't seem to have any encroachment. The
other car had been replaced by, effectively, a low freight wagon acting as
the counterweight. There didn't seem to be any problems with the stations,
and even if there were, I can't see how it would affect one, but not the
other, car.

I wonder if the problem was actually with the missing car, which might have
been damaged and been sent for repairs?

On 02.04.17 18:06, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\04\02 17:16, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

Two mates commented, on different occations, that the GOBLIN train
felt different than others they had been on. I have investigated and
172 has different bogies than other Turbostars and mechanical
transmission rather than hydraulic - gear changes can be distinctly
heard as the trains accelerate and decelerate (Wikipedia). One mate
said it felt like a bus.

I wonder why they built them like that?

Speaking of peculiar, London has four places where trains switch between
overhead and third rail, namely Acton Central, Mitre Bridge, Drayton
Park and Farringdon/City Thameslink. I have no idea how common
pan-up-pan-down in service is globally. The 313 trains at Drayton Park
very noticeably go though a "turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again" moment.

It also happens at City Thameslink northbound on 377s. I would not call
it "turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again," so much as changing modes.
It's actually not that easy to turn a train on or off.