Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 17:02:09 +0100, tim... wrote:


"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 May 2017 08:58:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-hits-buffers-at-heathrow-jwrcctt60?shareToken=703895969b67292fe9096b3e8da8e f44

Extracts:

The airport’s owners — a consortium of mostly foreign investment
funds —
want to recoup its past spending on the private train line with an
“investment recovery charge� of £570 for every train that uses the
track,
plus extra fees of about £107 per train.

Transport chiefs and the rail watchdog argue there is no justification
for
such a historic charge, and fear it could mean higher ticket prices.
The
Department for Transport reckons the extra charges would cost Crossrail
£42m a year.

A High Court judge is expected to rule imminently on the row after
Heathrow
challenged the watchdog’s decision to reject the charges. Under
contingency
plans drawn up by Transport for London, Crossrail trains could
terminate
a
few miles short of the airport, with passengers forced to transfer onto
other trains at a suburban station. The trains would then head back to
central London, dodging the £700 fees.

There is apparently an agreement:
https://your.heathrow.com/elizabeth-...sted-services/

"Heathrow, Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport
have agreed a commitment to boost integrated rail connectivity to the
airport, including the addition of two new Elizabeth Line trains per
hour serving Terminal 5 from December 2019."

Including Oyster payment for Heathrow Express

"From May 2018, new ticket readers will be installed at Heathrow,
meaning
passengers using Heathrow Express and TfL Rail between Paddington and
Heathrow will be able to use pay as you go Oyster or a contactless
device."

So how's the premium fare on HEx going to work then?

On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I meant:

how is the Oyster machine going to differentiate when you tap on it (at
LHR)?

tim

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

In message , at 17:13:03 on
Tue, 4 Jul 2017, David Walters remarked:

So how's the premium fare on HEx going to work then?

On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.
--
Roland Perry

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

tim... wrote:


"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 May 2017 08:58:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-hits-buffers-at-heathrow-jwrcctt60?shareToken=703895969b67292fe9096b3e8da8e f44

Extracts:

The airport’s owners — a consortium of mostly foreign investment funds —
want to recoup its past spending on the private train line with an
“investment recovery charge� of £570 for every train that uses the track,
plus extra fees of about £107 per train.

Transport chiefs and the rail watchdog argue there is no justification
for
such a historic charge, and fear it could mean higher ticket prices. The
Department for Transport reckons the extra charges would cost Crossrail
£42m a year.

A High Court judge is expected to rule imminently on the row after
Heathrow
challenged the watchdog’s decision to reject the charges. Under
contingency
plans drawn up by Transport for London, Crossrail trains could terminate
a
few miles short of the airport, with passengers forced to transfer onto
other trains at a suburban station. The trains would then head back to
central London, dodging the £700 fees.

There is apparently an agreement:
https://your.heathrow.com/elizabeth-...sted-services/

"Heathrow, Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport
have agreed a commitment to boost integrated rail connectivity to the
airport, including the addition of two new Elizabeth Line trains per
hour serving Terminal 5 from December 2019."

Including Oyster payment for Heathrow Express

"From May 2018, new ticket readers will be installed at Heathrow, meaning
passengers using Heathrow Express and TfL Rail between Paddington and
Heathrow will be able to use pay as you go Oyster or a contactless
device."

So how's the premium fare on HEx going to work then?

How will the Oyster machine know that the user is intending to travel on HEx
and not on Crossrail?

I suppose that it could be enforced at the other end, but then what will the
default fare be for people who don't tap out? And that will, of course,
delay passengers alighting from HEx at Padd as they queue to tap out. Which
will somewhat negate much of the convenience that the higher fare is paying
for.

There could be different machines for each train, but that will cause
confusions - I suspect most people would rather the convenience of Oyster
weren't available to HEx passengers if the result is that pax who travel on
Crossrail risk getting charged a premium fare for tapping on the wrong
machine.

I'm wondering if they really mean that oyster will be accepted for travel on
HEx.



Every HEx I've travelled on has had a ticket check on the train (there
being none at Padd). The fares difference could be enforced there.

Oyster allows charging of a special, non-zonal fare for certain things.
Notably river services, at present, but also the danglebahn.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

tim... wrote:


"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 17:02:09 +0100, tim... wrote:


"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 May 2017 08:58:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-hits-buffers-at-heathrow-jwrcctt60?shareToken=703895969b67292fe9096b3e8da8e f44

Extracts:

The airport’s owners — a consortium of mostly foreign investment
funds —
want to recoup its past spending on the private train line with an
“investment recovery charge� of £570 for every train that uses the
track,
plus extra fees of about £107 per train.

Transport chiefs and the rail watchdog argue there is no justification
for
such a historic charge, and fear it could mean higher ticket prices.
The
Department for Transport reckons the extra charges would cost Crossrail
£42m a year.

A High Court judge is expected to rule imminently on the row after
Heathrow
challenged the watchdog’s decision to reject the charges. Under
contingency
plans drawn up by Transport for London, Crossrail trains could
terminate
a
few miles short of the airport, with passengers forced to transfer onto
other trains at a suburban station. The trains would then head back to
central London, dodging the £700 fees.

There is apparently an agreement:
https://your.heathrow.com/elizabeth-...sted-services/

"Heathrow, Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport
have agreed a commitment to boost integrated rail connectivity to the
airport, including the addition of two new Elizabeth Line trains per
hour serving Terminal 5 from December 2019."

Including Oyster payment for Heathrow Express

"From May 2018, new ticket readers will be installed at Heathrow,
meaning
passengers using Heathrow Express and TfL Rail between Paddington and
Heathrow will be able to use pay as you go Oyster or a contactless
device."

So how's the premium fare on HEx going to work then?

On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I meant:

how is the Oyster machine going to differentiate when you tap on it (at
LHR)?



If the 'correction' is applied on the HEx train, then the 'touch in' device
doesn't necessarily need to know.

Presumably paper tickets will still be valid?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.

Nope. I took HeX in from LHR and later back out last Sunday and
wasn't gripped on the way back. There was an agent but she didn't
have time to check everyone's tickets. and didn't seem at all
surprised or upset when we arrived with some of us uninspected.

For Oyster, there are separate platforms at Paddington for HeX and
Connect now which seems unlikely to change since the HeX platforms are
single ended. My question is how you put a discounted HeX advance
ticket on your Oyster. Will there be gates that can handle
contactless, paper tickets, and bar codes on my phone?

R's,
John

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

tim... wrote:


"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 May 2017 08:58:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-hits-buffers-at-heathrow-jwrcctt60?shareToken=703895969b67292fe9096b3e8da8e f44

Extracts:

The airport’s owners — a consortium of mostly foreign investment funds —
want to recoup its past spending on the private train line with an
“investment recovery charge� of £570 for every train that uses the track,
plus extra fees of about £107 per train.

Transport chiefs and the rail watchdog argue there is no justification
for
such a historic charge, and fear it could mean higher ticket prices. The
Department for Transport reckons the extra charges would cost Crossrail
£42m a year.

A High Court judge is expected to rule imminently on the row after
Heathrow
challenged the watchdog’s decision to reject the charges. Under
contingency
plans drawn up by Transport for London, Crossrail trains could terminate
a
few miles short of the airport, with passengers forced to transfer onto
other trains at a suburban station. The trains would then head back to
central London, dodging the £700 fees.

There is apparently an agreement:
https://your.heathrow.com/elizabeth-...sted-services/

"Heathrow, Transport for London (TfL) and the Department for Transport
have agreed a commitment to boost integrated rail connectivity to the
airport, including the addition of two new Elizabeth Line trains per
hour serving Terminal 5 from December 2019."

Including Oyster payment for Heathrow Express

"From May 2018, new ticket readers will be installed at Heathrow, meaning
passengers using Heathrow Express and TfL Rail between Paddington and
Heathrow will be able to use pay as you go Oyster or a contactless
device."

So how's the premium fare on HEx going to work then?

It look to me like the HEx premium will go in standard class.


How will the Oyster machine know that the user is intending to travel on HEx
and not on Crossrail?

They won't.

I suppose that it could be enforced at the other end, but then what will the
default fare be for people who don't tap out? And that will, of course,
delay passengers alighting from HEx at Padd as they queue to tap out. Which
will somewhat negate much of the convenience that the higher fare is paying
for.

It'll only need enforcing in the small HEx first class.


There could be different machines for each train, but that will cause
confusions - I suspect most people would rather the convenience of Oyster
weren't available to HEx passengers if the result is that pax who travel on
Crossrail risk getting charged a premium fare for tapping on the wrong
machine.

I'm wondering if they really mean that oyster will be accepted for travel on
HEx.

Yes. That's why the book-ahead HEx price ha been slashed from £22 to £5.50.

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.

Nope. I took HeX in from LHR and later back out last Sunday and
wasn't gripped on the way back. There was an agent but she didn't
have time to check everyone's tickets. and didn't seem at all
surprised or upset when we arrived with some of us uninspected.

For Oyster, there are separate platforms at Paddington for HeX and
Connect now which seems unlikely to change since the HeX platforms are
single ended. My question is how you put a discounted HeX advance
ticket on your Oyster. Will there be gates that can handle
contactless, paper tickets, and bar codes on my phone?



HConn use any electrified platform at Paddington other than the HEx
platforms.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.

Nope. I took HeX in from LHR and later back out last Sunday and
wasn't gripped on the way back. There was an agent but she didn't
have time to check everyone's tickets. and didn't seem at all
surprised or upset when we arrived with some of us uninspected.

For Oyster, there are separate platforms at Paddington for HeX and
Connect now which seems unlikely to change since the HeX platforms are
single ended. My question is how you put a discounted HeX advance
ticket on your Oyster. Will there be gates that can handle
contactless, paper tickets, and bar codes on my phone?

I don't think the new discounted HEx fares from £5.50 are aimed at Oyster
users, as it's more than the usual z1-6 Oyster fare.

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

In message , at 18:17:07 on Tue, 4 Jul 2017,
John Levine remarked:
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.

Nope. I took HeX in from LHR and later back out last Sunday and
wasn't gripped on the way back. There was an agent but she didn't
have time to check everyone's tickets.

They try, 100% of the time.

--
Roland Perry

Crossrail access to Heathrow still not settled
 

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
On train ticket inspection? I infrequently travel on HEx but last time
I did my ticket was checked.

I'm pretty sure they do 100% on train inspections.

Nope. I took HeX in from LHR and later back out last Sunday and
wasn't gripped on the way back. There was an agent but she didn't
have time to check everyone's tickets. and didn't seem at all
surprised or upset when we arrived with some of us uninspected.

For Oyster, there are separate platforms at Paddington for HeX and
Connect now which seems unlikely to change since the HeX platforms are
single ended. My question is how you put a discounted HeX advance
ticket on your Oyster. Will there be gates that can handle
contactless, paper tickets, and bar codes on my phone?



HConn use any electrified platform at Paddington other than the HEx
platforms.

And, of course, the Elizabeth line will use its own low level platforms.
But HEx standard class and Elizabeth line Oyster fares will presumably have
to be the same. Or maybe they'll still charge a small premium on Oyster on
HEx, enforced through the different Paddington gate line?