In message
-septe
mber.org, at 15:04:11 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Except that the toffs in Chelsea really don't want a station on CR2.

Correct. They've been campaigning against it. They don't want the
disruption of its construction, nor the subsequent ability of suburban
plebs and lowlife to be whisked to their doorsteps.

If it's like other such proposals in similar circumstances, what they
don't like is the idea that lowlife can easily escape back to their
homeland having burgled the premises in Chelsea.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message
...
In article , (Roland
Perry)
wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year
using
Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra capacity.

though it doesn't need to leave the mainline at Wimbledon and take a round
the houses route to Chelsea via Balham to achieve that

building the tunnel portal somewhere between Earlsfield and CJ would be
sufficient

On Tue, 30 May 2017 11:57:49 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year using
Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra capacity.

If all CR2 is is another line into waterloo then they can save half the
money and terminate it there. Also its been 10 YEARS since eurostar left
waterloo and STILL the international platforms are out of use and if you go
down there today you'll find the whole place is a building site. Quite what
they needed to do to perfectly servicable platforms that required taking 10
years to design and take half the international section apart is anyones guess.
If there was really concern about capacity at waterloo those platforms would
have been put back into use within 6 months.

--
Spud

In article , d () wrote:

On Tue, 30 May 2017 11:57:49 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year
using Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra
capacity.

If all CR2 is is another line into waterloo then they can save half the
money and terminate it there. Also its been 10 YEARS since eurostar left
waterloo and STILL the international platforms are out of use and if you
go down there today you'll find the whole place is a building site.
Quite what they needed to do to perfectly servicable platforms that
required taking 10 years to design and take half the international section
apart is anyones guess. If there was really concern about capacity at
waterloo those platforms would have been put back into use within 6
months.

Of course it isn't, any more than most of the 100 million annual Waterloo
passengers terminate their journeys there.

You also seem blissfully unaware of the approach track to Waterloo which is
where a lot of the work is needed to allow former International platforms
designed for infrequent arrivals and departures to be used for a frequent
suburban service. You do yourself no favours overlooking such factors.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 31 May 2017 04:39:38 -0500
wrote:
You also seem blissfully unaware of the approach track to Waterloo which is
where a lot of the work is needed to allow former International platforms
designed for infrequent arrivals and departures to be used for a frequent
suburban service. You do yourself no favours overlooking such factors.

It didn't take 10 years to build it in the first place so don't tell me its
taken 10 years to figure out how to rejig the track. The only reason its been
sitting idle so long is utter incompetance at Network Rail. And as this photo
proves they could have run trains into it ages ago if they'd wanted to without
having to rebuild the thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S...ng_platforms_2
1_and_22,_Waterloo_station_in_2015.jpg

--
Spud

On 2017\05\31 09:05, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
In article , (Roland
Perry)
wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year
using
Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra capacity.

though it doesn't need to leave the mainline at Wimbledon and take a
round the houses route to Chelsea via Balham to achieve that

building the tunnel portal somewhere between Earlsfield and CJ would be
sufficient

CR2 plans to increase trains between Wimbledon and London, and will
allow trains from Chessington and Epsom to get to London without sharing
tracks with the lines from Surbiton. Starting the tunnel north of
Wimbledon wouldn't allow any extra service to Waterloo... the trains
from Wimbledon and the trains from Putney don't share tracks through
Clapham Junction, because both routes have dedicated tracks to Waterloo.

"Basil Jet" wrote in message
news
On 2017\05\31 09:05, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
In article , (Roland
Perry)
wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year
using
Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra capacity.

though it doesn't need to leave the mainline at Wimbledon and take a
round the houses route to Chelsea via Balham to achieve that

building the tunnel portal somewhere between Earlsfield and CJ would be
sufficient

CR2 plans to increase trains between Wimbledon and London, and will allow
trains from Chessington and Epsom to get to London without sharing tracks
with the lines from Surbiton.

as the bottleneck on the mainline runs all the way back to new Malden, where
are the extra paths on that part going to come from to achieve that?

Starting the tunnel north of Wimbledon wouldn't allow any extra service to
Waterloo...

no, but it would reduce the congestion at the throat as there would be less
(can I use that word as Roland isn't watching me) trains there each morning

It's few years since I travelled the mainline into Waterloo but recall
having to wait there frequently in the past

the trains from Wimbledon and the trains from Putney don't share tracks
through Clapham Junction, because both routes have dedicated tracks to
Waterloo.

yes, everybody already knows that :-(

wrote in message news
On Tue, 30 May 2017 11:57:49 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry)
wrote:

In message ,
at 04:07:40 on Tue, 30 May 2017, Paul Corfield
remarked:
I will be astonished if CR2 starts construction within the next 20
years. We will see a repeat of the nonsense that Crossrail had to
endure to get to the point of "spades in the ground". This is because
politicians are generally pretty stupid when it comes to transport
investment.

Or perhaps they realise that spending huge sums on something like CR2
brings less kudos than promising the same amount for the NHS, were
everyone in the country, not just a few toffs in Chelsea, can bask in
its alleged benefit.

The biggest set of beneficiaries are the 100 million passengers a year
using
Waterloo who will either get alternatives or much needed extra capacity.

If all CR2 is is another line into waterloo then they can save half the
money and terminate it there. Also its been 10 YEARS since eurostar left
waterloo and STILL the international platforms are out of use and if you
go
down there today you'll find the whole place is a building site. Quite
what
they needed to do to perfectly servicable platforms that required taking
10
years to design and take half the international section apart

they had to wait 9 years for it to become politically acceptable to confirm
that the international trains weren't coming back :-)

tim

In article , d () wrote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S...pying_platform
s_21_and_22,_Waterloo_station_in_2015.jpg

Do you not realise that the approach to those platforms was a single track
from and to the Linford St flyover?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 31 May 2017 13:45:22 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

as the bottleneck on the mainline runs all the way back to new Malden, where
are the extra paths on that part going to come from to achieve that?

I think the plan was to add a 5th track from the tunnel portal to at
least New Malden... Perhaps Hampton Court Junction.

Richard.