Oyster changes/improvements
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 13:40:31 on Tue, 1 Aug
2017, d remarked:

The "inside" isn't manned 24x7. And thanks for confirming my
impression that there's a breed of tech geek who thinks one minor
improvement is justifiable, how ever many negative consequences it
has. (And no, talking to humans isn't one of those - the human's
barcode reader struggled to read the new fob too, increasing the
length of the queue).

So pay by card or cash, whats the problem?

Do keep up; it's their *loyalty* card, not a payment card.

Fair enough.

Tesco have their own bank

The shop people claim the ATMs are "nothing to do with us", so it could
be a branding thing like Virgin Trains being nothing to do with Virgin
Bank.

however so it wouldn't be beyond the realms of
possibilty for them to have to release a smart card/fob for payment.

I have always thought they should have a combined Credit/Loyalty
card. Maybe there's some regulatory issue with it.

Apart from Tesco in fact doing it as mentioned below, Sainsbury have a
combined credit and Nectar card too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Oyster changes/improvements
 

In message , at 12:26:43 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

56% APR - no thanks!

Surely you don't pay credit card interest? And if you don't, why worry
about the rate?

Because it puts their business model into a rather poor context.

I prefer to be objective in my decision-making, rather than emotional.

And one of the data inputs to that kind of objectivity is the APR.

Perhaps because there's a regulatory issue over "whose data" it is. If
you make one transaction with such a card, does the data about what you
bought belong to the bank or to the Clubcard people.

It's all Tesco plc,

For now, but only because they did a u-turn as recently as 2 years ago.

so why can't they use the data for both purposes?

It all depends what they told the customers. In the mean time you
sliding quickly down a slippery slope of incomprehension between the
roles of data controller and data processor.

And while the "Clubcard people" are still owned by Tesco, they did
recently toy with idea of selling it. See this article for potntial
pitfalls:

https://informationrightsandwrongs.c...tection-implic
ations-of-sale-of-tesco-clubcard-company/

Tesco also got severely spanked by the ICO for administrative glitches
in the early days of the Clubcard. I think it something to do with
having failed to get permission from the users to send 3rd-party
marketing mailshots. Yes, everyone usually asks that, but they
apparently forgot.

In those early days, the Clubcard system was operated by a third
party, Dunnhumby. Tesco only bought it some years later, in several
stages.

See slippery slope.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster changes/improvements
 

In message , at 06:51:24
on Wed, 2 Aug 2017, remarked:

I have always thought they should have a combined Credit/Loyalty
card. Maybe there's some regulatory issue with it.

Apart from Tesco in fact doing it as mentioned below, Sainsbury have a
combined credit and Nectar card too.

Such issues are not black and white, but shades of grey.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster changes/improvements
 

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:35:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:26:43 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

56% APR - no thanks!

Surely you don't pay credit card interest? And if you don't, why worry
about the rate?

Because it puts their business model into a rather poor context.

I prefer to be objective in my decision-making, rather than emotional.

And one of the data inputs to that kind of objectivity is the APR.

How so? If you don't pay interest, why care about the rate? It's not
objective to have an emotional reaction to irrelevant variables.


Perhaps because there's a regulatory issue over "whose data" it is. If
you make one transaction with such a card, does the data about what you
bought belong to the bank or to the Clubcard people.

It's all Tesco plc,

For now, but only because they did a u-turn as recently as 2 years ago.

so why can't they use the data for both purposes?

It all depends what they told the customers. In the mean time you
sliding quickly down a slippery slope of incomprehension between the
roles of data controller and data processor.

Well, given that one of the credit cards they offer does provide full
Clubcard points, that's presumably not the problem. It also doesn't
stop Sainsbury's Bank from offering credit card with normal Nectar
rewards. And Nectar certainly isn't part of Sainsbury's; it isn't even
British-owned.

https://www.sainsburysbank.co.uk/credit_cards/micro/cca_creditcards_zone_search#tab--purchase-credit-cards-

So you'll have to invent new arguments.

Oyster changes/improvements
 

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:36:05 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 06:51:24
on Wed, 2 Aug 2017, remarked:

I have always thought they should have a combined Credit/Loyalty
card. Maybe there's some regulatory issue with it.

Apart from Tesco in fact doing it as mentioned below, Sainsbury have a
combined credit and Nectar card too.

Such issues are not black and white, but shades of grey.

50?

Oyster changes/improvements
 

In message , at 14:26:48 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:35:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:26:43 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

56% APR - no thanks!

Surely you don't pay credit card interest? And if you don't, why worry
about the rate?

Because it puts their business model into a rather poor context.

I prefer to be objective in my decision-making, rather than emotional.

And one of the data inputs to that kind of objectivity is the APR.

How so? If you don't pay interest, why care about the rate? It's not
objective to have an emotional reaction to irrelevant variables.

If you don't know, then I don't think I can succeed in explaining it to
you.

Perhaps because there's a regulatory issue over "whose data" it is. If
you make one transaction with such a card, does the data about what you
bought belong to the bank or to the Clubcard people.

It's all Tesco plc,

For now, but only because they did a u-turn as recently as 2 years ago.

so why can't they use the data for both purposes?

It all depends what they told the customers. In the mean time you
sliding quickly down a slippery slope of incomprehension between the
roles of data controller and data processor.

Well, given that one of the credit cards they offer does provide full
Clubcard points, that's presumably not the problem.

The fee charged for the card might be considered an insurance policy for
them to sort out any regulatory issues should they arise.

It also doesn't stop Sainsbury's Bank from offering credit card with
normal Nectar rewards.

Apparently not - only point per 5 pounds when used off-piste.

https://www.sainsburysbank.co.uk/cre...reditcards_zon
e_search#tab--purchase-credit-cards-

And Nectar certainly isn't part of Sainsbury's; it isn't even
British-owned.

Aimia Coalition Loyalty UK Ltd.

ps. You need to make your mind you whether co-ownership is a plus or a
minus. But once there *is* a split then the data controller/processor
issues will tend to become clearer.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster changes/improvements
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:26:48 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:35:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:26:43 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

56% APR - no thanks!

Surely you don't pay credit card interest? And if you don't, why worry
about the rate?

Because it puts their business model into a rather poor context.

I prefer to be objective in my decision-making, rather than emotional.

And one of the data inputs to that kind of objectivity is the APR.

How so? If you don't pay interest, why care about the rate? It's not
objective to have an emotional reaction to irrelevant variables.

If you don't know, then I don't think I can succeed in explaining it to
you.

Indeed not. I'm delighted to use cards with a high APR, as that funds the
freebies (normally cash back) for me. I take it you pay interest on your
credit cards?


Perhaps because there's a regulatory issue over "whose data" it is. If
you make one transaction with such a card, does the data about what you
bought belong to the bank or to the Clubcard people.

It's all Tesco plc,

For now, but only because they did a u-turn as recently as 2 years ago.

so why can't they use the data for both purposes?

It all depends what they told the customers. In the mean time you
sliding quickly down a slippery slope of incomprehension between the
roles of data controller and data processor.

Well, given that one of the credit cards they offer does provide full
Clubcard points, that's presumably not the problem.

The fee charged for the card might be considered an insurance policy for
them to sort out any regulatory issues should they arise.

It also doesn't stop Sainsbury's Bank from offering credit card with
normal Nectar rewards.

Apparently not - only point per 5 pounds when used off-piste.

https://www.sainsburysbank.co.uk/cre...reditcards_zon
e_search#tab--purchase-credit-cards-

And Nectar certainly isn't part of Sainsbury's; it isn't even
British-owned.

Aimia Coalition Loyalty UK Ltd.

As I said, it's not British owned. It's Canadian, based in Montreal. It
started as Aeroplan, Air Canada's frequent fliers' loyalty programme.


ps. You need to make your mind you whether co-ownership is a plus or a
minus. But once there *is* a split then the data controller/processor
issues will tend to become clearer.

There clearly is a split between Sainsbury's Bank and Nectar.

Oyster changes/improvements
 

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

If you don't pay interest, why care about the rate? It's not
objective to have an emotional reaction to irrelevant variables.

If you don't know, then I don't think I can succeed in explaining it to
you.

Indeed not.

I agree.

ps. You need to make your mind you whether co-ownership is a plus or a
minus. But once there *is* a split then the data controller/processor
issues will tend to become clearer.

There clearly is a split between Sainsbury's Bank and Nectar.

Which of Sainsbury's, Sainsbury's Bank, and Nectar are the data
controller and processor; and does that hold for off-piste Nectar
transactions too?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster changes/improvements
 

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 11:54:11AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

The "inside" isn't manned 24x7.

I was under the impression that petrol stations *had* to be manned when
they were open. That was certainly the case when I was a spotty yoof and
worked in one. If I needed to take a slash during my shift I had to turn
everything off first.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Support terrierism! Adopt a dog today!

Oyster changes/improvements
 

In message , at 16:29:39
on Tue, 8 Aug 2017, David Cantrell remarked:

The "inside" isn't manned 24x7.

I was under the impression that petrol stations *had* to be manned when
they were open. That was certainly the case when I was a spotty yoof and
worked in one. If I needed to take a slash during my shift I had to turn
everything off first.

It's changed. I filled up at a Sainsburys *completely* unattended petrol
station today. Card-only, but that's a different thread.
--
Roland Perry