Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

Yesterday I took one of the public tours of the Crossrail station at Canary Wharf which was somewhat interesting. Many of the escalators and lifts were working and they were starting fit out the platforms and to run test trains through, apparently. The appearance wasn't all that different from many of the Jubilee Line stations except for the use of yellow, "canary yellow" they said, to customise parts of this station. What colours they would use for the other stations wasn't divulged.

What I had not realised was that there is to be no easy interchange with the Jubilee Line. When I asked a question about this the project manager person said that they didn't see Canary Wharf as an interchange station, but as a destination in its own right, the implication being that they really didn't want the public changing trains there.

It seems to me that people coming from that branch of Crossrail such as Woolwich and wanting to get to say London Bridge or Waterloo might well want to change lines there. You will be able to do this under cover, but the connection will involve two sets of ticket barriers and being forced to use lots of escalators to go up to the surface and down again, and also pass a host of shops on the way. The latter are, presumably, the main justification for the feature. It's sad that at so many new stations passenger convenience is being sacrificed to the interests of the owners of these retail opportunities, just as in the Thameslink station at St.Pancras.

As to the absence of a station serving London City Airport, well that has always seemed barmy to me.


--
Clive Page

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

Clive Page wrote:
Yesterday I took one of the public tours of the Crossrail station at
Canary Wharf which was somewhat interesting. Many of the escalators and
lifts were working and they were starting fit out the platforms and to
run test trains through, apparently. The appearance wasn't all that
different from many of the Jubilee Line stations except for the use of
yellow, "canary yellow" they said, to customise parts of this station.
What colours they would use for the other stations wasn't divulged.

What I had not realised was that there is to be no easy interchange with
the Jubilee Line. When I asked a question about this the project manager
person said that they didn't see Canary Wharf as an interchange station,
but as a destination in its own right, the implication being that they
really didn't want the public changing trains there.

It seems to me that people coming from that branch of Crossrail such as
Woolwich and wanting to get to say London Bridge or Waterloo might well
want to change lines there. You will be able to do this under cover,
but the connection will involve two sets of ticket barriers and being
forced to use lots of escalators to go up to the surface and down again,
and also pass a host of shops on the way. The latter are, presumably,
the main justification for the feature. It's sad that at so many new
stations passenger convenience is being sacrificed to the interests of
the owners of these retail opportunities, just as in the Thameslink station at St.Pancras.

Yes, the CW Crossrail and JLE stations are built in different parallel
docks, with the main skyscrapers between them. The DLR has less than ideal
connections with both.


As to the absence of a station serving London City Airport, well that has
always seemed barmy to me.

Presumably no-one was prepared to pay for it. And that's probably still the
case. LCY can commission feasibility studies all it likes, but it will
probably have to pay for it if it wants a new station. TfL or NR certainly
won't pay.

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

On 01/03/2018 15:46, Recliner wrote:

As to the absence of a station serving London City Airport, well that has
always seemed barmy to me.

Presumably no-one was prepared to pay for it. And that's probably still the
case. LCY can commission feasibility studies all it likes, but it will
probably have to pay for it if it wants a new station. TfL or NR certainly
won't pay.




Various (mainly E London) groups have banged on about it since at least
2004 but AIUI the passenger numbers at LCY (still less than 5 million a
year) didn't make a case, bearing in mind the extra station would delay
everyone else travelling through the station.

At one time I gather there were plans to provide a section of track at
Silvertown which would accommodate a station if demand grew enough to
justify it but I've no idea if that survived into what's there now.

[1] and how many of those who don't use the DLR or buses now would
switch to use public transport while cabs/cars are available?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

The problem is that as soon as lots of extra stops are added, such as LCY and Canary Wharf, it stops being Crossrail.

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

On 2018\03\01 15:30, Clive Page wrote:
Yesterday I took one of the public tours of the Crossrail station at
Canary Wharf which was somewhat interesting.Â* Many of the escalators and
lifts were working and they were starting fit out the platforms and to
run test trains through, apparently.Â* The appearance wasn't all that
different from many of the Jubilee Line stations except for the use of
yellow, "canary yellow" they said, to customise parts of this station.
What colours they would use for the other stations wasn't divulged.

What I had not realised was that there is to be no easy interchange with
the Jubilee Line.Â* When I asked a question about this the project
manager person said that they didn't see Canary Wharf as an interchange
station, but as a destination in its own right, the implication being
that they really didn't want the public changing trains there.

It seems to me that people coming from that branch of Crossrail such as
Woolwich and wanting to get to say London Bridge or Waterloo might well
want to change lines there.

Woolwich Arsenal has direct trains to London Bridge and, I think,
Waterloo. It's hard to find a major (or even minor) traffic flow that
benefits from an Elizabeth Jubilee (how creepy is it to put those words
together) interchange at Canary Wharf.

These escalators aren't pedal-powered, are they? I don't find going up
and down lengthy escalators to be the sort of annoyance that going up
and down half a dozen steps is.

I'm more bothered by the fact that the Shenfield branch of Crossrail
manages to run along under the LTS for half a mile with neither line
stopping there, so the LTS somehow manages to run over both branches
without any interchange. I'm sure journeys from south Essex to the West
End would be a massive flow if facilitated.

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

On Thursday, 1 March 2018 15:30:32 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
Yesterday I took one of the public tours of the Crossrail station at Canary Wharf which was somewhat interesting.

What I had not realised was that there is to be no easy interchange with the Jubilee Line. When I asked a question about this the project manager person said that they didn't see Canary Wharf as an interchange station, but as a destination in its own right, the implication being that they really didn't want the public changing trains there.

It seems to me that people coming from that branch of Crossrail such as Woolwich and wanting to get to say London Bridge or Waterloo might well want to change lines there. You will be able to do this under cover, but the connection will involve two sets of ticket barriers and being forced to use lots of escalators to go up to the surface and down again, and also pass a host of shops on the way. The latter are, presumably, the main justification for the feature. It's sad that at so many new stations passenger convenience is being sacrificed to the interests of the owners of these retail opportunities, just as in the Thameslink station at St.Pancras.

As to the absence of a station serving London City Airport, well that has always seemed barmy to me.

To be fair the Crossrail station only arrived after an enormous amount of other development had taken place. Said development makes a paid side interchange tunnel impractical. However I walked almost entirely undercover from the Jubilee Line station to the entrance to the Crossrail station. It involved one escalator from the Jub stn into the shopping complex under Canada Square and then a comfortable walk involving one right turn and one left turn. It took about 5-6 mins given I don't walk very fast and it was lunchtime so lots of people shopping / getting lunch. The only aspect I am not too sure about is what hours that undercover link is open. I agree the other route via the open air is not marvellous, not well sign posted and would have been horrible given the wind whipping off the Thames yesterday.

If the link via the shopping centre is available for most of the operating day then I don't see there is any great issue. It is little different from the undercover link from the Jub station to Heron Quays DLR. I assume TfL will specify an out of station interchange between all the stations in the vicinity of Canary Wharf once Crossrail opens which at least affords people a cost free interchange if they want to make it.

--
Paul C
via Google

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

The lack of Crossrail station at City airport (LCY) seems odd at first glance, but when you look harder you can ask - would it really be worth the cost? City airport already has the highest public transport usage of any London area airport - more than two thirds of airport users use public transport. The DLR might still have a "mickey mouse" reputation with a few folk but the frequent flyers who use LCY (in general - travellers who value time and convenience over cost) have long ago realised that the DLR and Jubilee link is the fastest / quickest / easiest way into central London.
As for passengers at Woolwich wanting to get to London Bridge, well - errr - they already have direct trains. (On the occasions that SouthEastern can be bothered to run them....)

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

Might not make a lot of sense for origin/destination traffic, but there are connecting passengers to/from LCY and LHR. A direct link would be very welcome, especially given the abysmal links between LHR and LGW/STN/LTN.

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

Gary Law wrote:

Might not make a lot of sense for origin/destination traffic, but there
are connecting passengers to/from LCY and LHR. A direct link would be
very welcome, especially given the abysmal links between LHR and LGW/STN/LTN.


Of course Crossrail and Thameslink mean LHR to both LGW and LTN will be
connected with a single change at Farringdon. There are also direct coach
connections.

Robin

Crossrail: no easy Jubilee Line connection at Canary Wharf
 

On 14/03/2018 17:31, Gary Law wrote:

Might not make a lot of sense for origin/destination traffic, but there are connecting passengers to/from LCY and LHR. A direct link would be very welcome, especially given the abysmal links between LHR and LGW/STN/LTN.

What destinations are served by LCY that are not served by LHR
(excepting smaller airports in cities that are served by LHR)?