On 16/03/2018 13:26, wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ...
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html

Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.

An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?

Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

Or, to be precise, no.

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.

Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
08:26:39 on Fri, 16 Mar 2018, remarked:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ...
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...s-to-match-tub
e-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html

Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.

An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?

Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.


https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...yor-of-london-
announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

Or, to be precise, no.

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow.

"As part of the integrated service, daily fare capping for Oyster and
contactless and weekly fare capping for contactless will apply, with
travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to
Heathrow."

It also says: "Standard zonal fares will continue to apply for journeys
between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, with special single fares
applying for journeys to and from Heathrow Airport." No wonder I missed the
other reference contradicting that.

No mention of Heathrow Express so presumably none of this integration will
apply there.

It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:49:26 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 16/03/2018 13:26, wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ...
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html

Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.

An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?

Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

Or, to be precise, no.

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.

Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?

Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have
been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which.

Richard.

In message , at 20:55:41 on
Fri, 16 Mar 2018, Richard remarked:

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.

Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?

Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have
been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which.

It suffers from being a press release about the Mayor's infamous "fare
freeze" as much as an announcement about Elizabeth Line fares.

Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here
wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to
being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does a
station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the
ticket you buy.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:37:14 on Sat, 17 Mar
2018, Roland Perry remarked:

Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here
wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to
being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does
a station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the
ticket you buy.

I think I'll change that last bit to "or fare you are charged", because
until your day's trips are amalgamated under the capping system, all you
actually "buy" with smart ticketing is a trip through a gate.
--
Roland Perry

On Friday, 16 March 2018 13:26:41 UTC, wrote:
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ...
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html

Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.

An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?

Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

Or, to be precise, no.

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.

To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.

https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...es-20-may-2018

It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6.

All existing concessions also apply to TfL Rail services including the 60+ Pass, Freedom Pass, Veterans Oyster Card and the various child / low income / job seeker reductions.

TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR.

HEX will remain outside capping and Travelcard schemes. Oyster and Contactless acceptance will begin in the Summer when the gating of HEX's platforms at Paddington is complete. The HEX stations at Heathrow are also being gated as part of this scheme.

--
Paul C
via Google

On 17/03/2018 20:57, Paul Corfield wrote:

TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR.

Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I
don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from
GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what
this is) for access to their infrastructure...

And the clamouring about whether freedom passes are valid is starting to
be irksome - they are a concession, not a right.

In message , at
13:57:35 on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, Paul Corfield
remarked:
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.

https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...es-20-may-2018

It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly
caps covering travel to Zone 6.

What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares
such as:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...&ldn=1&tkt=SVR

and

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...st=ZHJ&tkt=SVR

will be affected (if at all).

Although one obvious conclusion be "not at all".

In other words the Elizabeth Line trip won't count as 'underground' for
such fares, even if they presumably would for outboundary Travelcards.

The results in an anomaly for day tickets where for £50.50 one will be
able to get a [valid on Lizzy Line] outboundary travelcard:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...d=0035&tkt=ADT

But it would cost £84.90 to do the same trip on a SDR:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...d=0035&tkt=ADT

--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:16:12 on Sun, 18 Mar
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked:

TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow
staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a
"goodwill" measure from GWR.

Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I
don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from
GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what
this is) for access to their infrastructure...

The answer to that is fairly simple. Heathrow Connect exists almost
entirely as a way for staff to get to and from the airport. The
occasional tourist using it as a HEx-lite is almost a loophole.

The arrangement between Heathrow and GWR for the use of HEx
infrastructure will no doubt reflect the fact that GWR is in effect
waiving the airport premium for airport workers.

Everyone wins, because GWR get the bums on seats because the fares are
competitive with other means of workers getting to the airport, and the
airport gets to bask in the modal shift (which includes meeting targets
for pollution/congestion, and the cost of providing parking) for those
workers whose alternative to Heathrow Connect would be driving.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:53:11 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
13:57:35 on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, Paul Corfield
remarked:
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.

https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...-fares-20-may-
018

It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in
Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly
caps covering travel to Zone 6.

What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares
such as:

It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.