In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab door=
s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which
will re=
place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors.
The fir=

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?
There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

Fair enough. And the style of seating?
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717
which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre
cab doors. The fir

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?
There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

Fair enough. And the style of seating?

Following current fashion, no doubt. I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot
recently but forgot to take a close enough look at the class 707s there to
see how their seats compare with those on the 700s. I am told they are
similar.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 06:54:49
on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717
which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre
cab doors. The fir

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?
There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

Fair enough. And the style of seating?

Following current fashion, no doubt.

Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked.

I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close
enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with
those on the 700s. I am told they are similar.

A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
06:54:49 on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the
717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have
centre cab doors. The fir

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?
There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

Fair enough. And the style of seating?

Following current fashion, no doubt.

Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked.

I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close
enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with
those on the 700s. I am told they are similar.

A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think.

That was only part of the question. No tables I think is true. Siemens have
form on that score on South Western - vide the 450s which are used on
express services with refreshments trolleys despite that definite handicap.

The other question is seat spacing and lack of armrests, something of a new
low on the 700s.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 13:31:30 -0500
wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
06:54:49 on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have
cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the
717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have
centre cab doors. The fir

Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s?
There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's

No tiolets.

Fair enough. And the style of seating?

Following current fashion, no doubt.

Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked.

I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close
enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with
those on the 700s. I am told they are similar.

A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think.

That was only part of the question. No tables I think is true. Siemens have
form on that score on South Western - vide the 450s which are used on
express services with refreshments trolleys despite that definite handicap.

The other question is seat spacing and lack of armrests, something of a new
low on the 700s.

The race to the bottom for passenger comfort continues unabated it seems.
I find it hard to believe an extra bit of padding and armrests for the seats
would even make a blip in the final cost of each train, but I guess they must
do it for financial reasons. Unless it is purely out of spite.

On 31/03/2018 17:34, wrote:
The race to the bottom for passenger comfort continues unabated it seems.
I find it hard to believe an extra bit of padding and armrests for the seats
would even make a blip in the final cost of each train, but I guess they must
do it for financial reasons. Unless it is purely out of spite.


From experience on buses and coaches, the extra cost comes in the time
it takes to clean padded seats either daily or after a puking incident.

On one notorious occasion (In the 1970s), The Man From The Ministry took
every single RM on one route off the road for "dirty seats", after
someone had upset him. If there is no padding or cloth involved, then
the dust from passengers' skin can't build up and need a deep clean
every day or two.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:
On 31/03/2018 17:34, wrote:
The race to the bottom for passenger comfort continues unabated it seems.
I find it hard to believe an extra bit of padding and armrests for the seats
would even make a blip in the final cost of each train, but I guess they must
do it for financial reasons. Unless it is purely out of spite.


From experience on buses and coaches, the extra cost comes in the time
it takes to clean padded seats either daily or after a puking incident.

But the rock hard new train seats *are* padded. However, the padding is
much too thin, there's no spring base and the seats are badly shaped and
too upright. The armrests are either missing or too short, and the spacer
between seat pairs is often absent.

The problem is that most train buyers don't specify that they require
comfortable seats, but do want the train to cost less. If they demanded
comfortable seats, the train builders would fit them from new; retrofitting
them after delivery would cost much more.


On one notorious occasion (In the 1970s), The Man From The Ministry took
every single RM on one route off the road for "dirty seats", after
someone had upset him. If there is no padding or cloth involved, then
the dust from passengers' skin can't build up and need a deep clean
every day or two.

We don't usually (yet) have hard plastic or metal shell seats in UK buses
and trains. But upholstery alone doesn't make seats comfortable; they also
need padding and an ergonomic shape, with a sloping seat base and lumbar
support.