https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8388791.html

tim... wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8388791.html

It's like the abandoned West London tram: the potential benefits to medium
distance travellers are outweighed by the real disbenefits to the locals
who will suffer from the displaced traffic.

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 08:42:31 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...estrianisation
london-sadiq-khan-westminster-council-scrapped-a8388791.html

It's like the abandoned West London tram: the potential benefits to medium
distance travellers are outweighed by the real disbenefits to the locals
who will suffer from the displaced traffic.

That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery vehicles.
People adapt.

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 08:42:31 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...estrianisation
london-sadiq-khan-westminster-council-scrapped-a8388791.html

It's like the abandoned West London tram: the potential benefits to medium
distance travellers are outweighed by the real disbenefits to the locals
who will suffer from the displaced traffic.

That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:11:01 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery
vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

True. Thats where politicians are supposed to come however and look to the
common good. Sadly with the spineless pillocks in this country in all parties
there's little chance of it happening. Unless its $14 billion being flung at
the spanish owner of heathrow of course - some nice non exec directorships
no doubt on the cards for various members of the cabinet in the future.

On 08/06/2018 12:37, wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:11:01 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery
vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

True. Thats where politicians are supposed to come however and look to the
common good. Sadly with the spineless pillocks in this country in all parties
there's little chance of it happening. Unless its $14 billion being flung at
the spanish owner of heathrow of course - some nice non exec directorships
no doubt on the cards for various members of the cabinet in the future.


I recently took part in a walk around my local area with some
representatives from the council and other interested residents who were
trying to put together a plan to improve air quality, improve the street
scene and reduce rat running and so on.

The council were actually very reasonable and tolerant, but a lot of the
local residents seem to take the view that they needed a private
motorway straight to their front door, and any level of inconvenience
(we're talking seconds or maybe driving 200m extra) was utterly
unacceptable even if it reduced the traffic outside their homes (and the
fumes in their lungs etc) by a significant proportion.

They also had their own pet issues and were unable to listen to reason
over why the design of e.g. lighting on private property was not in the
remit of the particular council personnel who were there.

In the face of such vehement opposition I can see why local officialdom
backs down and accepts the view of the shouty mob.

wrote in message news
On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:11:01 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people
who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week
and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems
and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very
pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery
vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

True. Thats where politicians are supposed to come however and look to the
common good. Sadly with the spineless pillocks in this country in all
parties
there's little chance of it happening. Unless its $14 billion being flung
at
the spanish owner of heathrow of course

I thought the whole idea of airport expansion was that the airport was
expected to pay for it themselves

tim... wrote:


wrote in message news
On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:11:01 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people
who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week
and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems
and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very
pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery
vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

True. Thats where politicians are supposed to come however and look to the
common good. Sadly with the spineless pillocks in this country in all
parties
there's little chance of it happening. Unless its $14 billion being flung
at
the spanish owner of heathrow of course

I thought the whole idea of airport expansion was that the airport was
expected to pay for it themselves

They a the expansion will be privately funded by HAL, ultimately funded
by airline access charges (currently around £20/passenger, but which may
rise). But TfL has warned that HAL may not be so willing to pay for
infrastructure and public transport upgrades outside the airport.

Oh, Heathrow doesn't have a Spanish owner. It's a multinational consortium.

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 14:12:06 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:


wrote in message news
On Fri, 08 Jun 2018 12:11:01 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
That depends if the traffic levels remained the same or whether people
who
would have driven find an alternative instead. I was in Nantes last week
and
while it was a PITA navigating the car through all the one way systems
and
blocked off roads in the centre, once you were on foot it was very
pleasent
with the pedestrianised and restricted streets with just trams and buses
passing by and not much other traffic apart from occasional delivery
vehicles.
People adapt.

I suppose it's the usual thing: those who will (or think they will) be
adversely affected know who they are in advance, and complain loudly.
Those who may in the future benefit from the change don't know they
might, and don't applaud loudly. In particular, future tourists don't
get a vote.

True. Thats where politicians are supposed to come however and look to the
common good. Sadly with the spineless pillocks in this country in all
parties
there's little chance of it happening. Unless its $14 billion being flung
at
the spanish owner of heathrow of course

I thought the whole idea of airport expansion was that the airport was
expected to pay for it themselves

They a the expansion will be privately funded by HAL, ultimately funded
by airline access charges (currently around £20/passenger, but which may
rise). But TfL has warned that HAL may not be so willing to pay for
infrastructure and public transport upgrades outside the airport.

Sure, and Porcine Airlines will be the first flight out. There is simply no
way they can raise that sort of money on the open market, the government will
be coughing up if they want it finished. And thats before you factor in the
economic chaos that the delays on the M25 caused by putting it in a tunnel
will create. All because some idiots believed the spin that we don't have
enough runways in the SE. Obviously nobody mentioned Gatwick, Stansted, Luton,
London City and Southend to them. And then there's Marsden in kent which is
soon to be turned into a housing estate. Go figure.

Oh, Heathrow doesn't have a Spanish owner. It's a multinational consortium.

Ferrovial are Spanish and none of the rest of them arn't British either so it
really makes little odds. Any profit heads off out of the country.

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 13:01:40 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
motorway straight to their front door, and any level of inconvenience
(we're talking seconds or maybe driving 200m extra) was utterly
unacceptable even if it reduced the traffic outside their homes (and the
fumes in their lungs etc) by a significant proportion.

Not SUV drivers by any chance?

They also had their own pet issues and were unable to listen to reason
over why the design of e.g. lighting on private property was not in the
remit of the particular council personnel who were there.

Some people just love the sound of their own voices and think their opinions
are more important than everyone elses.