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Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train
is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! Today, around 9.45a.m., I was in the front carriage of an Edgware Road train at West Brompton. 2 fluorescent-jacketed men got into the driver's cab. About 200 yards from Earl's Court, the train stopped (just before it emerges into daylight from the tunnel, West of the station) for about 10 minutes. Clanking could be heard in front of the train - like spanners being dropped on the rail. All the passengers looked at each other rather bemused. After a few minutes, came the announcement from the driver: "Sorry for the delay, but we are checking a piece of trackside equipment"! A few minutes later, the train moved off into Earl's Court and the 2 men in fluorescent jackets got off, complete with tools! Never experienced that before! Can any of the more experienced aficianados of this site shed any light on this curiosity? Marc. |
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Mait001 wrote:
Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! No nothing new, it's been happening for several decades. |
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Jack Taylor wrote:
I was surprised that the vehicle was in service. Had it been an overground TOC then the vehicle would have been locked out of service, rather than full of after-show revellers on their way home, surrounding working engineers - but then that's LUL for you! Even when cars are "locked out of use" pillocks still walk through the emergency doors and then complain when they can't get out. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! Today, around 9.45a.m., I was in the front carriage of an Edgware Road train at West Brompton. 2 fluorescent-jacketed men got into the driver's cab. About 200 yards from Earl's Court, the train stopped (just before it emerges into daylight from the tunnel, West of the station) for about 10 minutes. Clanking could be heard in front of the train - like spanners being dropped on the rail. All the passengers looked at each other rather bemused. After a few minutes, came the announcement from the driver: "Sorry for the delay, but we are checking a piece of trackside equipment"! A few minutes later, the train moved off into Earl's Court and the 2 men in fluorescent jackets got off, complete with tools! I can't offer an explanation but I had a similar experience last year on a Bakerloo line train. I boarded at Piccadilly Circus to find that the carriage reeked with a burning smell, a whole bank of seats were lifted and two engineers were intently watching the traction motor below. There were a lot of grinding and banging noises (unusual ones) coming from the wheelset as we progressed towards Queen's Park. I was surprised that the vehicle was in service. Had it been an overground TOC then the vehicle would have been locked out of service, rather than full of after-show revellers on their way home, surrounding working engineers - but then that's LUL for you! |
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Mait001 wrote:
Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! No nothing new, it's been happening for several decades. What would have happened had a serious fault been found, i.e. one that meant the train would not have been able to proceed further? And, aren't there health and safety rules about "track possessions" and switching off the current before workers start fumbling about in semi-darkness? Marc. |
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Mait001 wrote:
Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! Today, around 9.45a.m., I was in the front carriage of an Edgware Road train at West Brompton. 2 fluorescent-jacketed men got into the driver's cab. About 200 yards from Earl's Court, the train stopped (just before it emerges into daylight from the tunnel, West of the station) for about 10 minutes. Clanking could be heard in front of the train - like spanners being dropped on the rail. All the passengers looked at each other rather bemused. After a few minutes, came the announcement from the driver: "Sorry for the delay, but we are checking a piece of trackside equipment"! A few minutes later, the train moved off into Earl's Court and the 2 men in fluorescent jackets got off, complete with tools! I was on a tube train a while back where the driver took a couple of engineers into the tunnel and then stopped at a certain point to let them inspect something. |
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"Jack Taylor" wrote in message ... I can't offer an explanation but I had a similar experience last year on a Bakerloo line train. I boarded at Piccadilly Circus to find that the carriage reeked with a burning smell, a whole bank of seats were lifted and two engineers were intently watching the traction motor below. There were a lot of grinding and banging noises (unusual ones) coming from the wheelset as we progressed towards Queen's Park. I was surprised that the vehicle was in service. Had it been an overground TOC then the vehicle would have been locked out of service, rather than full of after-show revellers on their way home, surrounding working engineers - but then that's LUL for you! You'd prefer the entire train to be withdrawn from service? |
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Mait001 wrote:
Mait001 wrote: Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! No nothing new, it's been happening for several decades. What would have happened had a serious fault been found, i.e. one that meant the train would not have been able to proceed further? And, aren't there health and safety rules about "track possessions" and switching off the current before workers start fumbling about in semi-darkness? There are rules about possessions, but it is not necessary to have a possession for work to be carried out. Where the track is concerned the only thing likely to stop a train proceeding is a section of rail missing. If some other problem arises then there are rules that the driver must follow to get round the problem and keep trains moving, even if at reduced speed and/or frequency. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... Mait001 wrote: Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! No nothing new, it's been happening for several decades. What would have happened had a serious fault been found, i.e. one that meant the train would not have been able to proceed further? The procedure "staff working in double track tunnels" wouldn't have been introduced if it was suspected to be a fault that would require a suspension of service. And, aren't there health and safety rules about "track possessions" and switching off the current before workers start fumbling about in semi-darkness? Hence the train protecting them. Under the electricity at work act 1989, current should be discharged unless there is a good reason not to do so. Perhaps the work they were doing require current to be on to identify / remedy the fault? |
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Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a
train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! as others have said it is nothing new. Surely you would prefer that a running repair was made in this effective fashion rather than being turfed off the train, the line suspended and you being delayed? I was not complaining - merely pointing out something I had not seen before. I was once on a North London Line train when the (heritage unit) diesel failed, and the driver got out and effected mechanical repairs whilst we all watched in admiration! But I do have a genuine concern for safety - as Counsel who prosecutes for the Health and Safety Executive on occasion. Working in a dark tunnel, with two electrified rails fills me with horror! Marc. |
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"Robin Mayes" wrote in message .. . "Jack Taylor" wrote in message ... I can't offer an explanation but I had a similar experience last year on a Bakerloo line train. I boarded at Piccadilly Circus to find that the carriage reeked with a burning smell, a whole bank of seats were lifted and two engineers were intently watching the traction motor below. There were a lot of grinding and banging noises (unusual ones) coming from the wheelset as we progressed towards Queen's Park. I was surprised that the vehicle was in service. Had it been an overground TOC then the vehicle would have been locked out of service, rather than full of after-show revellers on their way home, surrounding working engineers - but then that's LUL for you! You'd prefer the entire train to be withdrawn from service? No. I'd prefer that the entire car was locked out of use. Be sensible, Robin. It's not very good from the customer point of view having the guts of the car on show - however safe equipment is, it often doesn't look very good in the 'raw metal/grease'. The guys were struggling to pay attention to what was occurring with the wheelsets, with customers getting in their way from both sides and, from the other point of view, some of the female passengers were looking distinctly unhappy about the possibility of getting grease on their posh frocks. |
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"Jack Taylor" wrote in message ... You'd prefer the entire train to be withdrawn from service? No. I'd prefer that the entire car was locked out of use. Be sensible, Robin. It's not very good from the customer point of view having the guts of the car on show - however safe equipment is, it often doesn't look very good in the 'raw metal/grease'. The guys were struggling to pay attention to what was occurring with the wheelsets, with customers getting in their way from both sides and, from the other point of view, some of the female passengers were looking distinctly unhappy about the possibility of getting grease on their posh frocks. There's no way to 'lock out' carriages. You can stop the passenger doors from opening on one car but people will just use the interconnecting door to access it anyway. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... But I do have a genuine concern for safety - as Counsel who prosecutes for the Health and Safety Executive on occasion. Working in a dark tunnel, with two electrified rails fills me with horror! You'd have a heart attack at some of the sights I've seen in my time then! Seriously though, as long as you're careful and watch what you're doing, there's nothing wrong with being trackside with the juice on. If traction current was turned off every time someone had to go trackside there'd be far more delays! |
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"Robin Mayes" wrote in message .. . There's no way to 'lock out' carriages. You can stop the passenger doors from opening on one car but people will just use the interconnecting door to access it anyway. I'm well aware of that - but actually trying is better than nothing at all. |
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"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
... "Robin Mayes" wrote in message .. . There's no way to 'lock out' carriages. You can stop the passenger doors from opening on one car but people will just use the interconnecting door to access it anyway. I'm well aware of that - but actually trying is better than nothing at all. You can't on 72 stock. So it's either in service or not. The guys were probably checking for repeating line breakers (someone else explain) by the sounds of things |
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In article , Mait001
writes Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! [...] Can any of the more experienced aficianados of this site shed any light on this curiosity? I've certainly seen it before. I recall a situation where there was a signal failure in a tube tunnel. Fixing this basically meant checking each step of the circuit in turn, with these being spread out through the tunnel. So the following process was used: - engineering staff boarded the cab at station A - the train ran forward to the faulty signal and stopped - the driver took the train forward slowly, tripping and then resetting the trip - the train ran forward to the next point where a check was needed - the engineering staff got out and checked a couple of items, protected by the stationary train - the staff got back in and carried on to station B - they then took a service train back to station A and repeat until the problem is fixed. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... Here's a new phenomenon: carrying out Underground track repairs whilst a train is in service, which is deliberately held up for that purpose! Can any of the more experienced aficianados of this site shed any light on this curiosity? Take a read: http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...at_danger.html Half way down that page is a description of something similar to what you've described. -Dave --- (remove spamblock or reply to group) |
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Many thanks, dave: an excellent link!
Marc. |
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"Mait001" wrote in message ... Many thanks, dave: an excellent link! Marc. No problem! If you like that site, you may also want to take a look TubePrune's site: http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/ Dave --- (remove spamblock or reply to group) |
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Clive Feather:
I recall a situation where there was a signal failure in a tube tunnel. ... - the engineering staff got out and checked a couple of items, protected by the stationary train - the staff got back in and carried on to station B - they then took a service train back to station A and repeat until the problem is fixed. How did you find out what the complete process was? -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "It was too crazy to be true, | and too crazy to be false." --Tom Clancy |
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"Mark Brader" wrote in message ... Clive Feather: I recall a situation where there was a signal failure in a tube tunnel. ... - the engineering staff got out and checked a couple of items, protected by the stationary train - the staff got back in and carried on to station B - they then took a service train back to station A and repeat until the problem is fixed. How did you find out what the complete process was? As an ex LT driver I can confirm that that is the process. On occasions, relays of technicians will be used depending on the nature of the problem. |
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How did you find out what the complete process was?
As an ex LT driver I can confirm that that is the process. I wasn't doubting that. -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "When I wanted to be a sigquote, that wasn't | the one I was thinking of." --Clive Feather |
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In article , Mark Brader
writes How did you find out what the complete process was? The driver announced that there would be a trip-by (not in those words) followed by a stop in the tunnel. So I asked the men with the HiVis. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
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You'd prefer the entire train to be withdrawn from service? No. I'd prefer that the entire car was locked out of use. Be sensible, Robin. For the past few years it has not been LUL policy to run trains with one or more cars cut out. This is because it is possible for passengers to access the car through the emergency doors. Personally, if people want to walk through a door that has a sticker showing no access and then possibly injure themselves (on broken glass or whatever, or slip and fall over on vomit etc.) then that should be down to them. Unfortunately in these days of claiming for everything and courts quite willing to award people damages when they are harmed during trespassing, LUL, like many other firms, are just covering themselves. It does mean, though, that trains are now taken out of service for often minor things when in the past it just meant isolating a car and carrying on in passenger service as normal. Roger |
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"Richard J." wrote in message ... On LU, the fact that these doors can be opened by passengers means that reversing trains at places such as Liverpool Street or Rayners Lane takes longer, even with station staff involved. Plus the inability to run with a car locked out. Plus the occasional death or injury through passenger use. So what's the reason for allowing public access that doesn't apply in Paris? If there is a genuine emergency would you really want to have to wait for someone to fight their way through a crowded train to unlock the doors? |
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Brimstone wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message ... On LU, the fact that these doors can be opened by passengers means that reversing trains at places such as Liverpool Street or Rayners Lane takes longer, even with station staff involved. Plus the inability to run with a car locked out. Plus the occasional death or injury through passenger use. So what's the reason for allowing public access that doesn't apply in Paris? If there is a genuine emergency would you really want to have to wait for someone to fight their way through a crowded train to unlock the doors? Why isn't that a problem in Paris, then? What sort of genuine emergency did you have in mind? If the train is crowded, it wouldn't be possible to squeeze a whole car's worth of passengers into adjacent cars. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
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In article ,
Richard J. wrote: Why isn't that a problem in Paris, then? Perhaps because there is more room alongside the cars in the Paris metro system. What sort of genuine emergency did you have in mind? If the train is crowded, it wouldn't be possible to squeeze a whole car's worth of passengers into adjacent cars. No, but it would be possible to move an entire train's worth of passengers along the train and out the door at the end, which is the only practial way out of a train in a tube tunnel (there being little room between the door and the wall of the tunnel), and the floor at that point being a bit ... curvey. -- You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. |
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In message , Brimstone
writes "Richard J." wrote in message ... On LU, the fact that these doors can be opened by passengers means that reversing trains at places such as Liverpool Street or Rayners Lane takes longer, even with station staff involved. Plus the inability to run with a car locked out. Plus the occasional death or injury through passenger use. So what's the reason for allowing public access that doesn't apply in Paris? If there is a genuine emergency would you really want to have to wait for someone to fight their way through a crowded train to unlock the doors? Why not have a J-Door type key for normal use, plus an emergency release handle, that would also apply the brakes? -- Spyke Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post. |
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In article , Richard J.
writes So what's the reason for allowing public access that doesn't apply in Paris? If there is a genuine emergency would you really want to have to wait for someone to fight their way through a crowded train to unlock the doors? Why isn't that a problem in Paris, then? Paris RATP lines are nearly all double track. So you can evacuate a train through the normal doors. Much of London Underground is single track with no clearance to the tunnel walls, so evacuation has to be through the end doors. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
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In article ,
(Solar Penguin) wrote: wrote: It does mean, though, that trains are now taken out of service for often minor things when in the past it just meant isolating a car and carrying on in passenger service as normal. Roger I was at Uxbridge last week, and tried to get a Met train baack. But just as it was about to leave, there was annociment saying it is being taken out of service because of "mess in the train." We all had to get off and take the next train! OTOH, It would be nice if SouthCentral could be even half that dedicated at keeping trains tidy... That's another thing, apart from the vomit etc., there are also the turds - sometimes dog but, often or not, human ones!. I must say, though, that given the amount of passengers that travel on the trains these days and the amount of drunk passengers that are carried at night and the state of some of them when turfed out at Morden, there seems to be much less of the vomit and urine around in the cars these days. Mind you, it might be because there are more trains running so it it shared out between more cars! Roger |
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In message , Robin Mayes
writes two engineers were intently watching the traction motor below. There were a lot of grinding and banging noises (unusual ones) coming from the wheelset as we progressed towards Queen's Park. I was surprised that the vehicle was in service. Had it been an overground TOC then the vehicle would have been locked out of service, rather than full of after-show revellers on their way home, surrounding working engineers - but then that's LUL for you! You'd prefer the entire train to be withdrawn from service? In the circumstances described, that should have been the correct procedure. If a car is unavailable, the whole train should be withdrawn from service. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote: In message , writes As far as I'm aware, this passenger emergency handle operation is now the same principle on all stock. On 73 stock, the Round The Train is lost so an emergency brake application is made. We do have a button on the floor to allow this to be overridden though, but it has to be kept pressed for the duration - and the Sonalert still sounds all the time the handle is down. The button on the floor is an addition since I was on the Picc Line. I can't remember what the procedure was then. I know the alarm came up on the TEP and I suspect that you could release the brakes by cutting out the RTC, although of course the alarm would still remain. Or it may be that the car could be by-passed via the TEP. They still had Guards on the trains then (1978), so any problems were left for the Guard to sort out :-) On the 95 stock, the RTC is only lost if the alarm is operated during the 16(?) seconds timer when departing the station. At all other times, there is just a warning in the cab that can be cancelled. The talk-back procedure would then be followed. Roger |
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