On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:58:10 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

Incidentally has anybody actually seen a wheelchair user on a bus yet?

Yes, more than once. A while ago I saw a group of yoofs who were on a
pub crawl of the Sutton area [why?], and one was in a wheelchair. I
noticed it as it was the first time I'd seen the ramp thingy appear
from under the door.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Henry":
Why is it that to many people, "disabled" means "wheelchair users"
and absolutely nothing else?

Annabel Smyth:
Also because the sign for "disabled" is a stylised wheelchair.

Also because, when we're talking about "Tube access", they're the
ones for which it would cause the most expense and difficulties.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "But I do't have a '' key o my termial."
-- Lynn Gold

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:04 +0000, Richard J. wrote:


Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire, the lifts
are not available, and people have to use the stairs. In those
circumstances, wheelchair users have to be carried to ground level. The
same applies to tube trains.

Wrong. The lifts on the JLE are clearly marked as firefighting lifts.
I don't work for the fire brigade or the underground, but I'd imagine
this means they are available during a fire...

Also, if I'm not wrong, there are disabled refuge areas at the emergency
exits, similar to the ones in many cinemas and public buildings.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:04 +0000, Richard J. wrote:

Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire, the lifts
are not available, and people have to use the stairs.
Also, what if there were a fire at Goodge Street or Covent Garden?
What happens to the obese or elderly who are unable to climb the emergency
stairs?

John Hearns wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:04 +0000, Richard J. wrote:


Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level
other than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of
fire, the lifts are not available, and people have to use the
stairs. In those circumstances, wheelchair users have to be
carried to ground level. The same applies to tube trains.

Wrong. The lifts on the JLE are clearly marked as firefighting
lifts.
I don't work for the fire brigade or the underground, but I'd
imagine this means they are available during a fire...

Also, if I'm not wrong, there are disabled refuge areas at the
emergency exits, similar to the ones in many cinemas and public
buildings.

Maybe, but I was comparing the situation in a typical office building,
say, where lifts are not available in a fire, with the situation in a
tube *train* (not station) where there is neither refuge nor fireproof
lift.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article ,
John Hearns wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:04 +0000, Richard J. wrote:

Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level
other than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire,
the lifts are not available, and people have to use the stairs. In
those circumstances, wheelchair users have to be carried to ground
level. The same applies to tube trains.

Wrong. The lifts on the JLE are clearly marked as firefighting lifts.
I don't work for the fire brigade or the underground, but I'd imagine
this means they are available during a fire...

The lifts at Stratford were not designed to be used in the event of
fire.

John Haines

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:53:16 +0000, Richard J. wrote:



Maybe, but I was comparing the situation in a typical office building,
say, where lifts are not available in a fire, with the situation in a
tube *train* (not station) where there is neither refuge nor fireproof
lift.

The lift at Bermondsey is a firefighting lift.

And I'm asking you in return what is the LU/Fire Brigade policy for
dealing with obese and elderly passengers in the event of an evacuation?

My guess - the fire brigade help them up the stairs.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 at 09:47:20, John Hearns wrote:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:53:16 +0000, Richard J. wrote:



Maybe, but I was comparing the situation in a typical office building,
say, where lifts are not available in a fire, with the situation in a
tube *train* (not station) where there is neither refuge nor fireproof
lift.

The lift at Bermondsey is a firefighting lift.

As may be - but it goes to the *station*, and Richard J is thinking of
the situation within a tube *train*. There are no lifts in a train, and
precious few ways of getting out of one in a tunnel in an emergency.
Except, of course, on those lines which are not technically "tube"
lines.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

In article ,
John Hearns wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:53:16 +0000, Richard J. wrote:



Maybe, but I was comparing the situation in a typical office
building, say, where lifts are not available in a fire, with the
situation in a tube *train* (not station) where there is neither
refuge nor fireproof lift.

The lift at Bermondsey is a firefighting lift.

And I'm asking you in return what is the LU/Fire Brigade policy for
dealing with obese and elderly passengers in the event of an
evacuation?

My guess - the fire brigade help them up the stairs.

The point of a fire lift is that there should be a safe lobby area
associated with it. The lift is designed to be safe to use in a fire.
People who cannot manage the stairs go to the lobby and wait. The fire
brigade is informed they are there so they can go and get them (using
the lift).

Design of the lift includes making the electrical system safe,
providing smoke extraction or (pressurisation) and putting sufficient
pump capacity in so it does not fill with water.

Disclaimer:
That is the idea in buildings, I cannot vouch for it being LUL policy.

John Haines

From: "Richard J."
Date: 15/04/2004 21:24 GMT Standard Time

Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required.

Oh, ramps won't do the job then? I must tell our local social services
department, who run a number of vehicles with ramps rather than lifts about
this - how remiss of them!