"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

Don't walk into any council housing estates at any time of day or
night.

So what are people who live on those estates supposed to do to?

Get mugged!


Or, more likely, mug.

BTN

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 at 23:17:17, John Rowland
wrote:

The dangerous parts of London are quiet and suffer from poor transport
links. The immediate vicinites of tube stations do not qualify. The only
real exception to this is Brixton, which I have always found to have a
mildly menacing atmosphere, but so long as you leave the station and walk
briskly like you know where you are going, and do not allow yourself to be
seen using a map either on the train after Stockwell or after leaving the
train, you will be fine there in daytime or even up to about midnight.

Oddly, I prefer Brixton to Clapham North, which I do dislike, especially
walking down that horrid spiral staircase. I'll use it if I must, but
I'd rather go to Brixton (but life is too short to bother changing at
Stockwell unless I really have to go into Brixton first!) At least
Brixton has plenty of staff about, and rather obvious CCTVs.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

Annabel Smyth wrote the following in:


On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 at 23:17:17, John Rowland
wrote:

The dangerous parts of London are quiet and suffer from poor
transport links. The immediate vicinites of tube stations do not
qualify. The only real exception to this is Brixton, which I have
always found to have a mildly menacing atmosphere, but so long as
you leave the station and walk briskly like you know where you are
going, and do not allow yourself to be seen using a map either on
the train after Stockwell or after leaving the train, you will be
fine there in daytime or even up to about midnight.

Oddly, I prefer Brixton to Clapham North, which I do dislike,
especially walking down that horrid spiral staircase. I'll use it
if I must, but I'd rather go to Brixton (but life is too short to
bother changing at Stockwell unless I really have to go into
Brixton first!) At least Brixton has plenty of staff about, and
rather obvious CCTVs.

Highbury and Islington (silverlink platforms) is a rather unpleasant
place to wait for a train, although entertainment is provided in the
form of occasional violent spectacles. I also find the experience of
catching the North London Line quite unpleasant. I had a rather scary
journey once where a man seemed to spend the entire journey eyeing up
my bike for stealability. That made me decide that taking my bike on
the North London line at 11:00 at night was probably a bad idea,
although if I'd been sensible I'd have realised that a lot sooner.

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
"Dust Hill guy likes the Gordon clock"

"You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code
Spelling lesson: then and than are different words.

"Robin May" wrote in message
. 4...
The dangerous parts of London are quiet and suffer from poor
transport links. The immediate vicinites of tube stations do not
qualify. The only real exception to this is Brixton, which I have
always found to have a mildly menacing atmosphere, but so long as
you leave the station and walk briskly like you know where you are
going, and do not allow yourself to be seen using a map either on
the train after Stockwell or after leaving the train, you will be
fine there in daytime or even up to about midnight.

Oddly, I prefer Brixton to Clapham North, which I do dislike,
especially walking down that horrid spiral staircase. I'll use it
if I must, but I'd rather go to Brixton (but life is too short to
bother changing at Stockwell unless I really have to go into
Brixton first!) At least Brixton has plenty of staff about, and
rather obvious CCTVs.

Highbury and Islington (silverlink platforms) is a rather unpleasant
place to wait for a train, although entertainment is provided in the
form of occasional violent spectacles. I also find the experience of
catching the North London Line quite unpleasant. I had a rather scary
journey once where a man seemed to spend the entire journey eyeing up
my bike for stealability. That made me decide that taking my bike on
the North London line at 11:00 at night was probably a bad idea,
although if I'd been sensible I'd have realised that a lot sooner.


IMHO, the most threatening part of the tube network is the Northern end of
the Bakerloo Line. Wembley Central is a nasty ghetto, Harlesden isn't much
better, and the walk from the platforms to the street at Willesden Junction
is also unpleasant.

But there are little-used mainline stations in London which are worse.
Loughborough junction is utterly derilect, and Streatham is now pretty
menacing.

BTN

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Ben Nunn wrote:

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

Don't walk into any council housing estates at any time of day or
night.

So what are people who live on those estates supposed to do to?

Get mugged!

Or, more likely, mug.

Oh, yes, that's right, over 60-70% of people who live on council estates
are muggers (presumbly, the rest are too busy dealing drugs or stealing
cars to bother). Well-known fact. Christ.

People like you and me find council estates scary because they're alien to
us - they're not like the places where we grew up, and the people there
aren't like the people we grew up with. This has absolutely nothing to do
with their actual safety.

tom

--
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END

Ben Nunn wrote:

But there are little-used mainline stations in London which are worse.
Loughborough junction is utterly derilect, and Streatham is now pretty
menacing.

bites

What's wrong with Streatham? It's pretty unclean, but I never feel
unsafe there (although that may be because I live there and go through
it twice a day ).

Like Brixton it opens onto a busy street, and so with the old safety in
numbers principle, which may or may not be illfounded in this case, I
feel ok.

Been quite interesting reading this thread and see some people
innocently lurching from one generalisation to the other without
seemingly really meaning it or wishing to insult any social group.

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:40:57 -0500, "Jonathan Osborne"
wrote:

I'd like to see a tube map cut into zones representing the property values
of the area around the tube station. I don't know London that well, but I
know places like Amersham and Cockfosters are pretty wealthy areas, in
addition to the obvious central section. I've heard areas around Limehouse
and Westferry are rather poor and depressed areas, for example.

Could anyone whip up something like this? It would really help someone like
me, who loves the tube and wants to explore London using it, but doesn't
want to get off at a shady place and get mugged.

I suggest having a read of "The New London Property Guide 04/05" by
Carrie Segrave - this should give you a greater idea about areas in
London, property prices, housing styles, transport links and the like.


Cheers,

Jason.

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:17:17 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Jonathan Osborne" wrote in message
...

It would really help someone like
me, who loves the tube and wants
to explore London using it, but doesn't
want to get off at a shady place and get mugged.

Speaking as a 6 foot white man in his late 30s who typically carries a
plastic bag..

[snip details of avoidance tactics]

I'm genuinely surprised to see that list - I thought you made of
stronger stuff John!. I suppose one or two of the entries like wandering
around the North Peckham estate looking like a lost sheep or else
walking along deserted, unfamiliar canal towpaths make sense. I have to
say that it doesn't enter my head as to whether somewhere is
intrinsically "dangerous" or not if I am out and about on my travels.
I'm not saying there are not areas where the risk of crime is greater
but the underlying issue seems to be the level of familiarity a person
has with an area. The more familiar it is the less risky it seems to be.
Of course the OP is stuck in a slight trap in that he seems unwilling to
venture off exploring without knowing he will be safe but he will never
feel safe because he will never build up his familiarity with a place.
I once went for a ride about on the New York Subway - I ended up
changing lines at a station - Bed Sty - in Brooklyn which I was later
told was the murder centre of New York. I had no idea that I was going
to an area with that reputation but I just made sure I looked like I
knew where I was going, followed the signs and looked confident. I lived
to tell the tale - same ethos applies to wandering around the Paris
suburbs, San Francisco, Sydney or wherever.

The reality is that almost all of London carries some risk of
encountering crime or some lunatic who may stab your eyes out. However a
huge proportion of the population avoids the risk every day of their
lives because they are streetwise and alert or else in so much of a
dream they'd never notice.

I find a simple way to build confidence is not to go by Tube but to ride
around by bus - pick your routes so they go from one town centre to
another and you get to look at the areas in between in safety. You build
your familiarity, you can quietly and safely trace your route on an A-Z
and you then develop a mental map of Greater London. Using the Tube then
becomes easier because you know what each area looks like having already
been there by bus. It's the only way I "learnt" London when I first
moved here. If you want to learn London pick on some big bus routes like
the 13, 113, 15, 14, 16, 82, 22, 38, 73, 36 (eek Peckham!), 29 and go
for a ride from Central London to the end of the route. Route 18 running
through Harlesden / Stonebridge estate to Sudbury will be an eye opener
for you though :-)
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 at 14:46:22, Ben Nunn wrote:

But there are little-used mainline stations in London which are worse.
Loughborough junction is utterly derilect, and Streatham is now pretty
menacing.

LJ is a lot better than it was 3-4 years ago, they seem to have
refurbished it. Streatham is, I agree, vile. I get a train from there
2 mornings/week, and there is nowhere decent to wait - lots of people
wait upstairs until the train is actually approaching. But you can
scarcely call it little-used, though - there are always loads of people
waiting for the 10.04, and in the evenings, you have to queue to get
out!

But, oh, THAMESLINK!!!! Why is it that the 10.04, which is the train I
try to catch, is almost invariably late? The one day it wasn't, I
missed it (sods' law!).....
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

Paul Corfield wrote:

(snip)

If you want to learn London pick on some big bus routes like
the 13, 113, 15, 14, 16, 82, 22, 38, 73, 36 (eek Peckham!), 29 and go
for a ride from Central London to the end of the route. Route 18 running
through Harlesden / Stonebridge estate to Sudbury will be an eye opener
for you though :-)

I must try some of those! In the meantime, I would add the 48 to the
"eye-opener" list, particularly the Lea Bridge Road to Clapton section.

--
John Ray, London UK.