John Ray wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

(snip)

If you want to learn London pick on some big bus routes like

the 13, 113, 15, 14, 16, 82, 22, 38, 73, 36 (eek Peckham!), 29 and go
for a ride from Central London to the end of the route. Route 18 running
through Harlesden / Stonebridge estate to Sudbury will be an eye opener
for you though :-)


I must try some of those! In the meantime, I would add the 48 to the
"eye-opener" list, particularly the Lea Bridge Road to Clapton section.

Oh yeah, I did that last week.

Try the N26 between Hackney Wick and Leyton!

Dave

(Actually the 97 from Leyton to Walthamstow wasn't too hot a few
mninutes ago either!)

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

People like you and me find council estates scary
because they're alien to us - they're not like the
places where we grew up, and the people there
aren't like the people we grew up with. This has
absolutely nothing to do with their actual safety.

I'm not entirely sure if that was partly aimed at me... but I spent my
formative years a few hundred yards from Tottenham's infamous Broadwater
Farm Estate, so my reason for saying that council estates are best avoided
is nothing to do with ignorance.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote the
following in:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

People like you and me find council estates scary
because they're alien to us - they're not like the
places where we grew up, and the people there
aren't like the people we grew up with. This has
absolutely nothing to do with their actual safety.

I'm not entirely sure if that was partly aimed at me... but I
spent my formative years a few hundred yards from Tottenham's
infamous Broadwater Farm Estate, so my reason for saying that
council estates are best avoided is nothing to do with ignorance.

I think it was more aimed at the person who seemed to be suggesting
that council estate residents are generally violent criminals. He
better hope he doesn't meet me in a dark alley late at night, I'll
teach him not to insult us council estate residents!

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
"Dust Hill guy likes the Gordon clock"

"You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code
Spelling lesson: then and than are different words.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

I'm genuinely surprised to see that list -
I thought you made of stronger stuff John!.

I once was, but a drug addict with a knife taught me a valuable lesson.

Doing necessary dangerous things shows courage, and is to be respected.
Doing unnecessary dangerous things shows stupidity, and deserves no respect.

I needed to go into a council estate last week - on the way in I witnessed a
police chase, and shortly after that the road was shut. As soon as the road
was opened I drove in and walked around. I do it when I have to. Most people
have no need to go into council estates, so it is stupid for them to do it.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

I needed to go into a council estate last week -
on the way in I witnessed a police chase, and
shortly after that the road was shut.

I forgot to mention that the *next day* I had reason to go into a completely
different council estate about 4 miles from the first one, a small council
estate surrounded by mile after mile of luxurious residences, and this time
my route was stopped by a police road block due to a non-fatal shooting. So
my comments about council estates are not mere Daily-Express-reader
paranoia.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:40:57 -0500, "Jonathan Osborne"
wrote:

Here's something I think would be interesting...

I'd like to see a tube map cut into zones representing the property values
of the area around the tube station. I don't know London that well, but I
know places like Amersham and Cockfosters are pretty wealthy areas, in
addition to the obvious central section.

Amersham isn't part of London by most definitions. It's an affluent
commuter town around 30 miles out, but unlike other comparable towns
it is served by the underground so appears on the tube map.
Cockfosters is respectable enough but personally I wouldn't describe
it as 'pretty wealthy'

I've heard areas around Limehouse
and Westferry are rather poor and depressed areas, for example.


As others have said, you need to take a ride on the DLR with your eyes
open:-) As its name suggests, Docklands is the area where London's
docks used to be, and at one time most of the housing in this area was
working-class housing for dock workers. However the docks became
disused after world war II, largely superseded by docks at Tilbury,
closer to the mouth of the Thames, which could accommodate larger
ships, and since then Docklands has been redeveloped with offices and
(expensive) housing. Parts of Limehouse and Westferry would have been
depressed thirty years ago but not now...

Could anyone whip up something like this? It would really help someone like
me, who loves the tube and wants to explore London using it, but doesn't
want to get off at a shady place and get mugged.


Nothing like a tube map, but if you know the postcode of a place then
http://www.upmystreet.com/ will give you average property prices for
an area, an ACORN classification which tells you the type of area.
Though I would be cautious of reading too much into this in terms of
the risk of being mugged.

Martin

"Dan Gravell" wrote in message
...
Ben Nunn wrote:

But there are little-used mainline stations in London which are worse.
Loughborough junction is utterly derilect, and Streatham is now pretty
menacing.

bites

What's wrong with Streatham? It's pretty unclean, but I never feel
unsafe there (although that may be because I live there and go through
it twice a day ).

Like Brixton it opens onto a busy street, and so with the old safety in
numbers principle, which may or may not be illfounded in this case, I
feel ok.


Safety in numbers would only apply if you either lived or worked there, and
were using the station in during peak times though.

Go there at night - or indeed during the middle of the day - and it's almost
empty apart from the occasional gang hanging around at platform level, and
loitering crack-dealer in the ticket hall.


Been quite interesting reading this thread and see some people
innocently lurching from one generalisation to the other without
seemingly really meaning it or wishing to insult any social group.


It's not a generalisation to talk about how places make you feel
individually. Right now, Streatham makes *me* feel somewhat threatened, so
I'll normally take a bus if I'm going there.

BTN

Ben Nunn wrote:

Go there at night - or indeed during the middle of the day - and it's almost
empty apart from the occasional gang hanging around at platform level, and
loitering crack-dealer in the ticket hall.

Not experienced that myself. I think the same sort of "gangs" you're
discussing hang about on my road, but they're hardly threatening, just kids.

I don't know what distinguishing features all crack dealers have so I
wouldn't know one if I saw one.

Dan

Dan Gravell wrote the following
in:

I don't know what distinguishing features all crack dealers have
so I wouldn't know one if I saw one.

They all sell crack.

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
"Dust Hill guy likes the Gordon clock"

"You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code
Spelling lesson: then and than are different words.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:48:15 +0100, John Ray
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
If you want to learn London pick on some big bus routes like
the 13, 113, 15, 14, 16, 82, 22, 38, 73, 36 (eek Peckham!), 29 and go
for a ride from Central London to the end of the route. Route 18 running
through Harlesden / Stonebridge estate to Sudbury will be an eye opener
for you though :-)

I must try some of those! In the meantime, I would add the 48 to the
"eye-opener" list, particularly the Lea Bridge Road to Clapton section.

As someone who does part of this route infrequently - what in
particular are you attempting to highlight here?

Am wondering what I've missed!


Cheers,

Jason.