Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on
to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change
journey to Gatwick and half the country.

I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line.
The Crossrail depot is in the way.

Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden
Junction IIRC.

That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the
canal and join the WLL on the north side.

No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells
Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton
Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the
canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains.


The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right
angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden
building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important
OOC station.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:28:03 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on
to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change
journey to Gatwick and half the country.

I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line.
The Crossrail depot is in the way.

Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden
Junction IIRC.

That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the
canal and join the WLL on the north side.

No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells
Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton
Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the
canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains.

It would be a much more expensive project, and there's probably no platform
space for the trains to reverse at CLJ anyway.

Platforms 16-17 seem to be two of the least used platforms at CLJ, the
main daytime user being the mostly hourly SN service to/from WFJ/MKC
along with the rush hour SN workings to/from Shepherds Bush and some
odd LO workings. For much of the day you could die of boredom waiting
for a train on those two platforms.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:09:29 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on
to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change
journey to Gatwick and half the country.

I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line.
The Crossrail depot is in the way.

Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden
Junction IIRC.

That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the
canal and join the WLL on the north side.

No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells
Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton
Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the
canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains.


The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right
angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden
building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important
OOC station.

High Wycombe - South Ruislip - Northolt - Drayton Green - Ealing
Broadway - Acton Main Line - round the NW side of OOC (or whatever is
there after rearrangement connected with HS2) - Willesden Relief/SW
Lines - West London Line ?

IIRC at least a couple of the cunning plan maps for post-HS2 Old Oak
Common involve platforms/routes a bloody long walk[TM] further
north-ish of the main station to deal with WCML(NW)-WLL(S),
NLL(S)-WLL(S) and NLL(S)-NLL(N) trains. Part of the above route (SW
lines) would pass through what was the platformed area of Willesden
Junction until the 1960s.

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:09:29 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on
to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change
journey to Gatwick and half the country.

I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line.
The Crossrail depot is in the way.

Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden
Junction IIRC.

That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the
canal and join the WLL on the north side.

No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells
Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton
Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the
canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains.


The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right
angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden
building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important
OOC station.

High Wycombe - South Ruislip - Northolt - Drayton Green - Ealing
Broadway - Acton Main Line - round the NW side of OOC (or whatever is
there after rearrangement connected with HS2) - Willesden Relief/SW
Lines - West London Line ?

Yes, that would work, apart from the lack of paths on the GWR relief lines
when Crossrail is in full operation. The journey would also be very slow.

The direct route on the old GWR Main line to Birmingham would be much
shorter, quicker and independent of other lines. It would provide a direct,
fast, reliable, dedicated route to dedicated Chiltern bay platforms at OOC,
just next to the HS2 and Crossrail platforms. That's why it's the route
Chiltern wants, not an incredibly slow, meandering, congested route to CLJ,
via an inconvenient station near OOC.

Those Chiltern passengers who do want to get to CLJ can do so via a change
at OOC.


IIRC at least a couple of the cunning plan maps for post-HS2 Old Oak
Common involve platforms/routes a bloody long walk[TM] further
north-ish of the main station to deal with WCML(NW)-WLL(S),
NLL(S)-WLL(S) and NLL(S)-NLL(N) trains.

Which is partly why it's not what Chiltern wants.


Part of the above route (SW
lines) would pass through what was the platformed area of Willesden
Junction until the 1960s.


There may be scope for a long moving walkway or airport-style shuttle
between Willesden Junction and OOC. That would make OOC an even more
important interchange station.

On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.


Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.


Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain.

Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under
discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line
west, but construction still hasn't begun.

Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough.

In fact, all it requires is Old Oak to be bypassed altogether, and
Chiltern trains to be given paths on the GW main line between
West Ealing and Acton Yard. The route from Acton Yard to
Clapham Junction already exists and is a regular freight route.
No new loop would be needed.

"Recliner" wrote in message
news
Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain.

Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under
discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the
line
west, but construction still hasn't begun.

Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough.

I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the
Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol
and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a
Reading-Heathrow shuttle.

There were proposals at one time to build a spur from the
Reading-Ascot-Waterloo line near Feltham to serve Heathrow from that
direction, but I don't know whether that is still on the cards.

On 26/11/2018 03:29, Recliner wrote:

There may be scope for a long moving walkway or airport-style shuttle
between Willesden Junction and OOC. That would make OOC an even more
important interchange station.

It's about 900 metres. At 9km/h that's 6 minutes on a walkway. You'd
have to fit it with toilets :-)


--
Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic
Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space.
Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK).
Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized.
Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi.

On 26/11/2018 02:09, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new
OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly
service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury.

It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people
getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham.
Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other
Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line.

Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment
getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and
faster to drive or get a coach.

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on
to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change
journey to Gatwick and half the country.

I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line.
The Crossrail depot is in the way.

Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden
Junction IIRC.

That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the
canal and join the WLL on the north side.

No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells
Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton
Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the
canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains.


The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right
angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden
building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important
OOC station.


You massively overestimate the land needed for the curve. You only need
the car park of the Boden building for a curve the same radius as the
one in Bicester.

--
Basil Jet - listening... St. Vincent. Star Park. Stealing Sheep. Stephen
Mallinder. Stereolab. Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel. Steve Mackay. Steve
Mason. Steve Reich. Steve Wynn. Stiff Little Fingers. Stonephace. Stump.
Sub Sub. Subway Sect. Suede. Sufjan Stevens. Sugar. Suicidal Tendencies.
Suicide. Sun City Girls & David Oliphant. Sun Ra. Sunday Painters.
Swans. Sweet Baboo. Swell Maps. Swing Out Sister. Swollen Monkeys. Syd
Barrett. Sylvan Esso.