Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

As an appendix at the back, Gillham names 45 people killed in the WW2
Bank station bombing on 11/01/41, and states that 57 people were
killed in total. My own researches have come up with _46_ people
killed in the incident itself, and ten dying in hospital over the
following days/weeks, making 56 in all:

http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...wcafa.htm#bank

I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly, but if
anyone already has a copy of the book, could they compare the 45
listed by Gillham with the initial 46 I have to see who he missed? I
suspect it may be the Home Guard, Frank Wilcox.

Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

"Nick Cooper 625" wrote in message
om...

I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly,

If you live in London, you could visit the British Library and look at the
copy there.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:38:19 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Nick Cooper 625" wrote in message
. com...

I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly,

If you live in London, you could visit the British Library and look at the
copy there.

True, but if someone has a copy on a shelf a few feet away from them,
that would circumvent the need to do that. If the situation were
reversed, I'd be happy to answer a similiar query if I could (and have
done on countless occassions).
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

"Nick Cooper" wrote ...
"John Rowland" wrote:
"Nick Cooper 625" wrote ...

I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly,

If you live in London, you could visit the British Library
and look at the copy there.

True, but if someone has a copy on a shelf a few feet
away from them, that would circumvent the need to do
that. If the situation were reversed, I'd be happy to
answer a similiar query if I could (and have
done on countless occassions).

I wasn't telling you off, merely offering an alternative solution in case no
other help materialises.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

"Nick Cooper 625" wrote in message
om...
As an appendix at the back, Gillham names 45 people killed in the WW2
Bank station bombing on 11/01/41, and states that 57 people were
killed in total. My own researches have come up with _46_ people
killed in the incident itself, and ten dying in hospital over the
following days/weeks, making 56 in all:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...wcafa.htm#bank
I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly,

A shame, as it's an excellent book, and IMHO the high price is more-than
justified by the amount of research that the author has put into it.


but if
anyone already has a copy of the book, could they compare the 45
listed by Gillham with the initial 46 I have to see who he missed? I
suspect it may be the Home Guard, Frank Wilcox.

I'm slightly confused by the way your site has laid them out compared to
Gillham, but for clarity here's the complete list:-

Barritt, Kate (49)
Beagles, PC Arthur William (25)
Beckett, Florence Elizabeth (48)
Beckett, Ernest William (58)
Blackby, Augustus George (59)
Blake, Peter Cecil (17)
Block, David (62)
Bond, Royston (34)
Brown, William Charles (45)
Cavanagh, Edward John (54)
Fosh, Ronald Walter (14)
Free, Robert William (48)
Gates, Arnold George (35)
Gates, Shelia (5)
Goodwin, Charles Alfred (16)
Gregory, Alice (41)
Gregory, Corrine (14)
Griffiths, William (70)
Hall, Benjamin (39)
Heard, John George (33)
Josephovitch, Abraham (32)
Josephovitch, Bernard (28)
Kappes, Ellan Elizabeth (15)
Katz, Celia (24)
Krise, George Ernese (27)
Lawrence, Harold Alexander (39)
Leyserman, Ada (28)
Roast, Harry (16)
Swayer, Stanley Philip (18)
Siverstein, Morris (57)
Smart, Albert Victor (45)
Smart, Grace (43)
Smith, Alice Augusta (68)
Smith, Edward Julian (47)
Smith, Louisa (46)
Sole, Charles Arthur (17)
Soley, Bernard Henry (18)
Such, Emanuel (18)
Travitz, Jack (44)
Tulloch, David (61)
Waldron, Charles Henry (30)
Wells, Alice Maud (62)
Wilcox, Frank Edward (17)
Winsky, Rene (14)
Ziff, Hannah Fanny (60)

In the accompanying text, Gillham says "There were actually 57 fatalities,
the other 12 were probably unidentifiable or else Forces Personnel and these
would be recorded elsewhere."


HTH.

Anyone got JC Gillham's 'Waterloo & City Railway' book?
 

"David Splett" wrote in message ...
"Nick Cooper 625" wrote in message
om...
As an appendix at the back, Gillham names 45 people killed in the WW2
Bank station bombing on 11/01/41, and states that 57 people were
killed in total. My own researches have come up with _46_ people
killed in the incident itself, and ten dying in hospital over the
following days/weeks, making 56 in all:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...wcafa.htm#bank
I can't justify forking out £35 just to solve this anomaly,

A shame, as it's an excellent book, and IMHO the high price is more-than
justified by the amount of research that the author has put into it.

but if
anyone already has a copy of the book, could they compare the 45
listed by Gillham with the initial 46 I have to see who he missed? I
suspect it may be the Home Guard, Frank Wilcox.

I'm slightly confused by the way your site has laid them out compared to
Gillham, but for clarity here's the complete list:-

I arranged my page to reflect the different dates, circumstances and
location of death. Obviously you've got the first 46, who were killed
immediately or died in situ, then the first who died in hospital (or
en route) the same day, then those injured who died over the next week
or so. As it turns out, this diffrentiation partly explains the
composition Gillham's list

Barritt, Kate (49)
Beagles, PC Arthur William (25)
Beckett, Florence Elizabeth (48)
Beckett, Ernest William (58)
Blackby, Augustus George (59)
Blake, Peter Cecil (17)
Block, David (62)
Bond, Royston (34)
Brown, William Charles (45)
Cavanagh, Edward John (54)
Fosh, Ronald Walter (14)
Free, Robert William (48)
Gates, Arnold George (35)
Gates, Shelia (5)
Goodwin, Charles Alfred (16)
Gregory, Alice (41)
Gregory, Corrine (14)
Griffiths, William (70)
Hall, Benjamin (39)
Heard, John George (33)
Josephovitch, Abraham (32)
Josephovitch, Bernard (28)
Kappes, Ellan Elizabeth (15)
Katz, Celia (24)
Krise, George Ernese (27)
Lawrence, Harold Alexander (39)
Leyserman, Ada (28)
Roast, Harry (16)
Swayer, Stanley Philip (18)
Siverstein, Morris (57)
Smart, Albert Victor (45)
Smart, Grace (43)
Smith, Alice Augusta (68)
Smith, Edward Julian (47)
Smith, Louisa (46)
Sole, Charles Arthur (17)
Soley, Bernard Henry (18)
Such, Emanuel (18)
Travitz, Jack (44)
Tulloch, David (61)
Waldron, Charles Henry (30)
Wells, Alice Maud (62)
Wilcox, Frank Edward (17)
Winsky, Rene (14)
Ziff, Hannah Fanny (60)

In the accompanying text, Gillham says "There were actually 57 fatalities,
the other 12 were probably unidentifiable or else Forces Personnel and these
would be recorded elsewhere."

Comparing the above to the file the Commonwealth War Graves Commission
supplied to me, the first things that leaps out is that Gillham
doesn't list any of the three people who died in the London Hospital,
Stepney. Beyond that, seven of those killed/died at the station are
missing, along with one who died at Bart's the next day and the
probable final victim eight days later.

The only person Gillham lists that I didn't know about was
"Josephovitch, Bernard (28)" but checking the CWGC web-site shows that
the surname is actually Joskowicz, and while he died on the same day,
there's no mention of Bank Station in the record, while his home
address is different from Abraham Josephovitch's.

I suspect that Gillham was working from a list supplied by the CWGC
pre-computrisation, selected only from total 375 City of London
casualties (the ledgers were originally arranged by borough). That
said, it doesn't explain the absence of seven of the immediate
fatalities and the one of the later other two who is noted as being
injured at Bank.

I'm note sure about his claim to 57 fatalities, as every other
reference I've seen states 56 and 69 wounded (i.e. 125 in total), and
that's reflected in those I've been able to identify. His reference
to service personnel is not unreasonable, but it's true that the
inquiry report does include a statement from someone who describes a
dead soldier's rifle being bent completely out of shape, it was
probably the Home Guard Frank Wilcox, presumably on duty at the time.
The Civil Defence incident report stated:

Dead - 25 bodies recovered
10 more believed still to be under debris
Taken to hospital - 40
Slightly injured - 60

Funnily enough, if you subtract 69 wounded from the latter two, that
leaves 31, which added to the "25 bodies recovered" gets you 56! 10
of the injured did die in hospital or en route, so it's possible that
the other 21 were DOA as well, and were subsequently recorded as
having died on site originally. Might be worth following up the death
certificates to clarify the details....

Anyway, thanks for that, David, it's been a great help.