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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Just found this on a bus mailing list:
The Kingsway Subway has been open to the public for the past few days. The occasion is an art exhibition organised by the St Martins College of Art just across the road from the entrance. It runs from 23-29 April I believe. While the LT Museum has organised a few prebooked visits to the subway in the past, and I faintly recall Ian Allan advertising a visit many years ago, this is I believe the first time, since the trams went, that members of the public have been able to simply walk in off the street, free of charge, down the slope and explore the subway, as far as I think halfway down Kingsway. -- MetroGnome ~~~~~~~~~~ |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Erm, we don't have a subway on the kingsway in Dundee.
Can you enlighten me as to which city you are talking about ? (OK I can tell by the reply headers that this is London, but it does not help reading uk.rec.subterranean) There is life outside of London AJM "MetroGnome" wrote in message news:gARjc.72$xm2.30@newsfe1-win... Just found this on a bus mailing list: The Kingsway Subway has been open to the public for the past few days. The occasion is an art exhibition organised by the St Martins College of Art just across the road from the entrance. It runs from 23-29 April I believe. While the LT Museum has organised a few prebooked visits to the subway in the past, and I faintly recall Ian Allan advertising a visit many years ago, this is I believe the first time, since the trams went, that members of the public have been able to simply walk in off the street, free of charge, down the slope and explore the subway, as far as I think halfway down Kingsway. -- MetroGnome ~~~~~~~~~~ |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"MetroGnome" wrote in
news:gARjc.72$xm2.30@newsfe1-win: Just found this on a bus mailing list: The Kingsway Subway has been open to the public for the past few days. The occasion is an art exhibition organised by the St Martins College of Art just across the road from the entrance. It runs from 23-29 April I believe. While the LT Museum has organised a few prebooked visits to the subway in the past, and I faintly recall Ian Allan advertising a visit many years ago, this is I believe the first time, since the trams went, that members of the public have been able to simply walk in off the street, free of charge, down the slope and explore the subway, as far as I think halfway down Kingsway. see http://www.thoughtcrime.org.uk/ - described as "The show will inaugurate this space as a gallery" |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Dr Fish" wrote in message ... Erm, we don't have a subway on the kingsway in Dundee. Can you enlighten me as to which city you are talking about ? (OK I can tell by the reply headers that this is London, but it does not help reading uk.rec.subterranean) There is life outside of London AJM We are of course talking about the Kingsway tram subway in London, what you do have in Dundee however is a nuclear bunker at Craigiebarns which is well worth a visit. Unfortunately not open to the public but visits can be arranged. Nick |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Dr Fish" wrote in message ... Erm, we don't have a subway on the kingsway in Dundee. Can you enlighten me as to which city you are talking about ? (OK I can tell by the reply headers that this is London, but it does not help reading uk.rec.subterranean) There is life outside of London AJM Life, Jim, but not as we know it !! Sorry, couldn't resist that one !! -- Cheerz, Baz |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
The Kingsway Subway has been open to the public for the past few days.
... this is I believe the first time, since the trams went, that members of the public have been able to simply walk in off the street, free of charge, down the slope and explore the subway ... Most likely the first time *ever*. The general public would hardly have been permitted to enter by walking along the tracks when it was in service, would they? -- Mark Brader, "It is impossible. Solution follows..." Toronto, -- Richard Heathfield |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Well today I ventured down the tunnels and I'm glad I did , was a very
interesting experience. The so called "art" exhibition (its the usual modern-art pretentious pseudo-intellectual crap conjured up by art students who can't even spell "talent" , never mind muster any) hardly takes up any space so most of the tunnels are as-is. The initial section from the ramp looks pretty untouched , the tracks are still in place and nothing extra has been added. Just beyond you have the old station and here for some reason a thin layer of concrete (or something like it) has been poured over the tracks. However the rest of it remains unaffected , even the old exits are still there and the stairs just end as gratings in the street above. South beyond the station the tracks reappear and continue right along to the current "end" of the tunnel (which you weren't supposed to go down but I did anyway). I put end in quotes since the untouched part of the tunnel ends in some brick structures blocking most of it and some concrete beams appearing in the roof. You could walk further down but there was no lighting and I couldn't see how much further it went, presumably not much as the "new" ramp to the bit of the tunnel converted to a road would start soon. One thing worried me about this visit. The iron beams holding up the roof are also holding up part of the road above and I'm not sure I'd really want to be in a 40 ton truck driving across some pretty rusty looking beams. Well worth a visit all in all. I hope they open them up again in future though preferable without the junk masquarading as art inside. B2003 |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"MetroGnome" wrote in message
news:gARjc.72$xm2.30@newsfe1-win... Just found this on a bus mailing list: Thanks! I loved it! I wondered about the roundels in the station. Did all tram stops have a plethora of roundels? I wonder why the practice of signs facing alighting passengers hasn't been carried over to bus stops to this day. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"John Rowland" wrote:
I wondered about the roundels in the station. Did all tram stops have a plethora of roundels? No - just the two sub-surface stations. These roundels were situated at two levels - some for lower deck and some for upper deck passengers. They were similar in size and shape to Underground station roundels, but in the colours of a compulsory tram stop sign - the station name was in white lettering on a black bar, across a blue circle. I wonder why the practice of signs facing alighting passengers hasn't been carried over to bus stops to this day. Over the past few years, names have been added to bus stop flags, so that they face *approaching* passengers - which is of considerably more use. Some DLR stations on the Beckton line also have station nameboards that face approaching trains, for the benefit of passengers looking out of the front of the train. -- MetroGnome ~~~~~~~~~~ |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Robin May wrote in message .4...
(Boltar) wrote the following in: om Well today I ventured down the tunnels and I'm glad I did , was a very interesting experience. The so called "art" exhibition (its the usual modern-art pretentious pseudo-intellectual crap conjured up by art students who can't even spell "talent" , never mind muster any) hardly takes up any space so most of the tunnels are as-is. The art is pretty astonishingly crap. It is indeed the usual poorly done left wing student crap. I could have done better myself. I don't know - I thought the neo-Communist Russia posters were fun, and the video installation was quite moving. A lot of it was a bit wank, though. Well worth a visit all in all. I hope they open them up again in future though preferable without the junk masquarading as art inside. It was very interesting being able to have a look round. It would be brilliant if they opened it again. When I looked there was a strange combination of art-studenty looking type and transport enthusiasts, and a few odd people who looked like a combination of the two. I'd rather stupidly left my good camera at home so the photos I did take will turn out horrible probably. I saw someone taking quite a lot of photos and if he's around here I'd very much appreciate it if he put some up on the internet. That could have been me if it was around 13:30 - black jacket, glasses, too many bags?! |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 at 17:28:28, MetroGnome
wrote: Over the past few years, names have been added to bus stop flags, so that they face *approaching* passengers - which is of considerably more use. Some DLR stations on the Beckton line also have station nameboards that face approaching trains, for the benefit of passengers looking out of the front of the train. And very useful they are, too. It would be even more useful if buses would *stop* where they're supposed to. How many times have I been carried past Lambeth Town Hall, especially on a 159. So I complain to the conductor, who says "Did you ring the bell?" But when I say "Why should I have to, it's a compulsory stop!" they just look at me blankly as though they had never heard of such a concept! At least the DLR stops automatically..... -- Annabel Smyth http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 8 March 2004 |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message ... On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 at 17:28:28, MetroGnome wrote: Over the past few years, names have been added to bus stop flags, so that they face *approaching* passengers - which is of considerably more use. Some DLR stations on the Beckton line also have station nameboards that face approaching trains, for the benefit of passengers looking out of the front of the train. And very useful they are, too. It would be even more useful if buses would *stop* where they're supposed to. How many times have I been carried past Lambeth Town Hall, especially on a 159. So I complain to the conductor, who says "Did you ring the bell?" But when I say "Why should I have to, it's a compulsory stop!" they just look at me blankly as though they had never heard of such a concept! At least the DLR stops automatically..... The conductor is correct. The request/compulsory stop distinction only applies to people getting on, if you want to get off you have to ring the bell at any stop. Peter Smyth |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Peter Beale" wrote in message
o.uk... In article , (John Rowland) wrote: I wondered about the roundels in the station. Did all tram stops have a plethora of roundels? I wonder why the practice of signs facing alighting passengers hasn't been carried over to bus stops to this day. No: it was just at the two stations in the subway (where, being island platforms, passengers alighted via the right-facing driver's platform rather than elsewhere at the back). Thanks. I've just had a vague recollection of photos of tram islands at Manor House - were they adorned with roundels as well? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 at 21:24:31, Peter Smyth
wrote: The conductor is correct. The request/compulsory stop distinction only applies to people getting on, if you want to get off you have to ring the bell at any stop. Peter Smyth Since when? I've never heard *that* one...... -- Annabel Smyth http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 8 March 2004 |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"MetroGnome" wrote in message news:79vkc.1285$7S2.126@newsfe1-win...
"John Rowland" wrote: I wondered about the roundels in the station. Did all tram stops have a plethora of roundels? No - just the two sub-surface stations. These roundels were situated at two 2 sub surface? Where was the other one? B2003 |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Boltar wrote:
2 sub surface? Where was the other one? B2003 The two were (I think) at Holborn and Aldwych -- David |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Boltar" wrote in message om... "MetroGnome" wrote in message news:79vkc.1285$7S2.126@newsfe1-win... "John Rowland" wrote: I wondered about the roundels in the station. Did all tram stops have a plethora of roundels? No - just the two sub-surface stations. These roundels were situated at two 2 sub surface? Where was the other one? B2003 If you were to go past the first tram stop (near Holborn) and go as far along as possible you come to the ramp where the cars have taken over the other half of the tunnel. Under that ramp there is a small entry on each side where you can squeeze thru to find yourself between the walls of the tram tunnel and the newer road tunnel (about a metre wide). There you can still see the advertising boards and the remains of a roundel circle at what was the Aldwych stop. Take a look at the various Kingsway websites and someone will have pics of this area. Obviously you can work it out when aboveground cos you can see the road ramp exit. http://www.starfury.demon.co.uk/uground/ has the pics I mean. HTH, Nick P |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
On Sat, 1 May 2004 12:36:09 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote: On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 at 21:24:31, Peter Smyth wrote: The conductor is correct. The request/compulsory stop distinction only applies to people getting on, if you want to get off you have to ring the bell at any stop. Peter Smyth Since when? I've never heard *that* one...... It seems to have sneaked in sometime in the last ten years or so! I don't think the TfL website is entirely clear. It states, in describing the types of bus stop 'Compulsory Buses will automatically stop, unless they are full, except Night Buses -' but this is subtly under a 'boarding' heading. Also 'When you want to get off the bus ring the bell once, and well in advance to let the driver know..' It would help if it said this applied to all types of stop. (In fact it doesn't even explain that the bus will only stop to let you off at a bus stop sign!) I wonder if bus companies outside London use the same rules? -- Peter Lawrence |
Compulsory stops (was: Kingsway Tram Subway open to ...)
Peter Lawrence:
the TfL website ... states, in describing the types of bus stop 'Compulsory Buses will automatically stop, unless they are full, except Night Buses -' but this is subtly under a 'boarding' heading. ... I wonder if bus companies outside London use the same rules? Do British bus companies outside London generally *have* the distinction between request and compulsory stops? It doesn't exist on any bus system in North America that I know about, and likewise for continental Europe. -- Mark Brader | "It can be amusing, even if painful, to watch the Toronto | ethnocentrism of those who are convinced their | local standards are universal." -- Tom Chapin |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
In article , Boltar
writes Just beyond you have the old station and here for some reason a thin layer of concrete (or something like it) has been poured over the tracks. Wild speculation: I wonder if there's been any movie filming done down there? If so, it might be as a safety measure or to make it esy to lay a camera track. offI fell asleep watching 'the Russia House' on ITV1 last night, but not before I noticed the large panes of glass/perspex fitted over the outside of the church (there's a lot of plot development at the top of an open, onion-dome bell tower). My guess is that it was because of wind blowing through, making dialogue impossible to record properly (or perhaps because just to keep cast + crew warm. It was probably freezing up there). I never noticed it in the cinema, but after being graded for TV, the reflections were clearly obvious, especially if the camera tracked or panned quickly. /off Movie productions go to amazing lengths, for example all the Minis used underground in the remake of the Italian Job were actually electric, to comply with the authorities' requirements. "I said charge it, not blow the bloody battery up!" Regards, Simonm. -- simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/ |
Compulsory stops (was: Kingsway Tram Subway open to ...)
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Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
On Sun, 02 May 2004 09:03:42 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
wrote: In article , Boltar writes Just beyond you have the old station and here for some reason a thin layer of concrete (or something like it) has been poured over the tracks. Wild speculation: I wonder if there's been any movie filming done down there? If so, it might be as a safety measure or to make it esy to lay a camera track. The was a scene in Stephen Poliakoff's 1990 film 'Hidden City' shot in the tunnel; see my web-page: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...lmtv/hcity.htm -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Nick Pedley" wrote in message ...
other half of the tunnel. Under that ramp there is a small entry on each side where you can squeeze thru to find yourself between the walls of the tram tunnel and the newer road tunnel (about a metre wide). There you can Why on earth did they put fake walls in the car tunnel?? Why not keep the tunnel as it was and just resurface it? B2003 |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Boltar" wrote in message om... "Nick Pedley" wrote in message ... other half of the tunnel. Under that ramp there is a small entry on each side where you can squeeze thru to find yourself between the walls of the tram tunnel and the newer road tunnel (about a metre wide). There you can Why on earth did they put fake walls in the car tunnel?? Why not keep the tunnel as it was and just resurface it? B2003 The fake walls only seem to stretch back to the point where the ramp starts (about 30m), I think the rest of the tunnel was fully used. Personally I'd like to see inside the section under the bridge where the tram tunnel originally came out, there's a massive doorway there these days (with a doorbell!). Nick P |
Compulsory stops (was: Kingsway Tram Subway open to ...)
On Sun, 02 May 2004 10:47:20 +0000, David Jackman wrote:
No, just London. Everywhere (?) else is request Yep. Milton Keynes is an oddity, mind. Even on the hail-and-ride routes, drivers tend to know almost instinctively who wants the bus even if they don't signal for it. (like continental Europe). Nope. Hamburg operate on a "compulsory" stop system, or certainly did when I was there. The idea was that if you do *not* want a bus to stop and pick you up, wave it past. If you *do* want the bus, no signal is necessary. If no-one is at the stop, the bus doesn't stop, however. This tended to work because the routes tend to be very rationalised, so the idea of 20-plus routes at one stop like is common in the UK is very rare. To alight, however, use of the bell was necessary, except when very heavily loaded when the driver would activate the bell himself so the "Wagen haelt" sign lit up to save passengers having to fight their way to the button. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK Mail me on neil at the above domain; mail to the above address is NOT read |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
On Sat, 01 May 2004 11:17:31 +0100, Terry Casey wrote:
If she was still around (unlikely, as this all happened nearly 50 years ago*) I can assure you that she would make mincemeat of any driver or conductor who doesn't know what a Compulsory stop means - just as she did to me all those years ago! Not all that long ago, I got a telling-off from a Blackpool tram conductor for doing the very same thing - that operation is at least 50 years in the past! What I didn't know was that there are lots of small stops without platforms or proper signs, and the tram stopped at one of those instead of where I wanted. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK Mail me on neil at the above domain; mail to the above address is NOT read |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
In article , SpamTrapSeeSig
writes Movie productions go to amazing lengths, for example all the Minis used underground in the remake of the Italian Job were actually electric, to comply with the authorities' requirements. If you visit Disney Studios in Marne-le-Vallee, near Paris, one of the shows they do is all about stunts. To do stunts involving long sequences of cars driving backwards, they have a separate car built back-to-front, with the real driver low down looking out of the boot and the apparent driver just holding a dummy steering wheel. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Compulsory stops (was: Kingsway Tram Subway open to ...)
In article , Mark Brader
writes Do British bus companies outside London generally *have* the distinction between request and compulsory stops? It doesn't exist on any bus system in North America that I know about, and likewise for continental Europe. Cambridge doesn't have the concept - all stops are request. However, when I was growing up in the Southend-on-Sea area, the bus stops there divided into Request (green writing, IIRC) and Compulsory (red writing). Buses always stopped at the latter even if nobody was waiting. I didn't travel on buses much outside S-o-S and London, but my impression was that this wasn't something special to the Corporation Transport area, but applied at least to all Eastern National stops. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
In message , Nick Pedley
writes The fake walls only seem to stretch back to the point where the ramp starts (about 30m), I think the rest of the tunnel was fully used. Personally I'd like to see inside the section under the bridge where the tram tunnel originally came out, there's a massive doorway there these days (with a doorbell!). I have (although this was 10+ years ago) been inside that end but not very far! One day I was walking along the Embankment and spotted that the door was open. Curiosity managed to get the better of me and I hesitantly peered inside. Apart from a couple of council vehicles, there was nothing (and appeared to be no-one) inside. The tracks had gone but the conduit remained and stretched off into the gloom. I couldn't see very far ahead and - realising that I really shouldn't have been there, I quickly ducked back out again. In the years since, I've seen the door open again a couple of times and the conduit was still there. But had I not taken that closer look that time I don't think I'd have realised what it was (or else I'd have assumed that it was one of the running rails). -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
Ian Jelf wrote in message ...
In message , Nick Pedley writes The fake walls only seem to stretch back to the point where the ramp starts (about 30m), I think the rest of the tunnel was fully used. Personally I'd like to see inside the section under the bridge where the tram tunnel originally came out, there's a massive doorway there these days (with a doorbell!). I have (although this was 10+ years ago) been inside that end but not very far! One day I was walking along the Embankment and spotted that the door was open. Curiosity managed to get the better of me and I hesitantly peered inside. Apart from a couple of council vehicles, there was nothing (and appeared to be no-one) inside. The tracks had gone but the conduit remained and stretched off into the gloom. I couldn't see very far ahead and - realising that I really shouldn't have been there, I quickly ducked back out again. In the years since, I've seen the door open again a couple of times and the conduit was still there. But had I not taken that closer look that time I don't think I'd have realised what it was (or else I'd have assumed that it was one of the running rails). I've seen inside as well once years ago when I passed by and the door was open. I seem to remember there was a roadsweeping vehicle in there. I presume that the ceiling comes down to meet the access ramp of the underpass somewhere up ahead. I've seen a picture taken inside since the tram line shut. It was on the web but I can't remember where. |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
In message , Neill Wood
writes I've seen inside as well once years ago when I passed by and the door was open. I seem to remember there was a roadsweeping vehicle in there. Yes, I think that one of the vehicles I saw in there was a roadsweeper, too. I presume that the ceiling comes down to meet the access ramp of the underpass somewhere up ahead Y4es but that would be quite a long way ahead, around two "bends, more or less on the site of the former Aldwych tram station. (I've always assumed - albeit without any form evidence) that the Subway followed the Aldwych then turned sharp(ish) left under Kingsway?) -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Kingsway Tram Subway open to the general public
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... In message , Neill Wood writes I've seen inside as well once years ago when I passed by and the door was open. I seem to remember there was a roadsweeping vehicle in there. Yes, I think that one of the vehicles I saw in there was a roadsweeper, too. I presume that the ceiling comes down to meet the access ramp of the underpass somewhere up ahead Y4es but that would be quite a long way ahead, around two "bends, more or less on the site of the former Aldwych tram station. (I've always assumed - albeit without any form evidence) that the Subway followed the Aldwych then turned sharp(ish) left under Kingsway?) -- Yes it followed the roadway above it. Can just remember riding through it as a boy. The trams were signalled off at intervals from the top of the ramp at the northern end, and it was very exciting to be at the front of the top deck as the tram swung round from Theobalds Road and plunged down into the darkness! The conductors used whistles instead of the bell at the two tunnel stations in Kingsway. It was very narrow and the trams passed each other with little clearance as I recall. |
Compulsory stops (was: Kingsway Tram Subway open to ...)
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:42:09 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote: Nope. Hamburg operate on a "compulsory" stop system, or certainly did when I was there. The idea was that if you do *not* want a bus to stop and pick you up, wave it past. If you *do* want the bus, no signal is necessary. What the bus you want comes along and somebody next to you waves it on?? Charlie -- Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs |
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