Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Likwise does any news exist on the Heathrow Express extension.

Martin

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.

Plans are advanced for the closure of the T4 loop to allow the T5
extension to be connected. I think the latest plan is around December.
I'll try and confirm today at work, but I think we're looking at about a
two year closure.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.

Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.

Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In message , Boltar
writes

Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

Absolutely no idea, we've not been given that detail.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extensionto T5
 

Boltar wrote:
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...

In message , Martin
Whelton writes

Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.


Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

B2003

I doubt there will be PEDs as Jubilee drivers had to receive special
training for theirs - there's not much point having to train all
Piccadilly drivers to do this for just one station. There may be some
technical issues too but I'm not sure about those.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Boltar
writes

Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

Absolutely no idea, we've not been given that detail.


Has there been a consensus regarding how it will be rendered on the map yet?

If one loop goes HX-T4-T123-HX and the other goes HX-T123-T5-HX, then the
diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the end of the line,
no?

BTN

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Boltar
writes

Will the station be in the JLE style with platform doors or will it be
like T123 & Hatton Cross?

Absolutely no idea, we've not been given that detail.


Has there been a consensus regarding how it will be rendered on the map
yet?

If one loop goes HX-T4-T123-HX and the other goes HX-T123-T5-HX, then the
diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the end of the line,
no?

T5 will not be on a loop. Some trains will go HX-T4-T123-HX as now and the
others will go HX-T123-T5(reverse)-T123-HX

Peter Smyth

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Expressextension to T5
 

Once upon a time -- around about 5/19/04 08:42 --
possibly wrote:

diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the end of the line,
no?
I will thank you not to do that again. I laughed so hard I got water all
over my keyboard. I'm very cross with you right now.

-- E

--
Frodo Baggins' New Year's Resolution "To ditch the bloody ring. And get
laid." (A London Times article by James Morgan 12-31-02)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...

If one loop goes HX-T4-T123-HX and the other goes HX-T123-T5-HX, then
the
diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the end of the
line,
no?

T5 will not be on a loop. Some trains will go HX-T4-T123-HX as now and the
others will go HX-T123-T5(reverse)-T123-HX


So how will that work with the two platforms at T123? Will one be used
exclusively for London-bound trains that have gone round the loop, and the
other for bi-directional trains on a single track extension to T5?

Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for both sets of
London-bound trains? (which would make more sense to the traveller, but be
logistically more difficult to implement, and result in a bizarre station
where twice as many trains went in one direction as t'other.)

BTN

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...
Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for
both sets of London-bound trains? (which would make more sense
to the traveller, but be logistically more difficult to implement,
and result in a bizarre station where twice as many trains went
in one direction as t'other.)

Based on the plans, it would appear to be the above. Wouldn't be that
difficult to implement; the T123-T5 trains would be completely separate from
the T5-T123-CL & T4-T123-CL trains, the only conflict would be the
convergence between the latter two.

I presume that there will be some flexibility retained to allow trains to
reverse at T123, and possibly run trains from T4 into Platform 1 like they
do now.

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

So how will that work with the two platforms at T123? Will one be used
exclusively for London-bound trains that have gone round the loop, and the
other for bi-directional trains on a single track extension to T5?

That would prevent any T5 bound train entering the T123 platform until a
London bound train had cleared the extension and T123. That doesn't sound
very promising.

It would also be very confusing for passengers wanting to transfer to T5.

Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for both sets of
London-bound trains? (which would make more sense to the traveller, but be
logistically more difficult to implement, and result in a bizarre station
where twice as many trains went in one direction as t'other.)

That sounds more likely to me. It doesn't sound like it would be
logistically any more difficult. After all for the loop things would be
much the same and for the T5 link it just shifts the changeover from double
track to single track running to the other side of T123. It would also mean
a train could wait in T123 and head for T5 as soon as there the branch is
clear rather than waiting for T123 to be cleared too.

I don't think too many people would find the situation very bizarre.
Whenever I am at a waiting at a station there always seems to be twice as
many trains going the other way :-)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In article , Ben Nunn
writes
Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for both sets of
London-bound trains? (which would make more sense to the traveller, but be
logistically more difficult to implement, and result in a bizarre station
where twice as many trains went in one direction as t'other.)

Provided that the junction with the loop doesn't involve a flat
crossover, it will be extremely easy to implement; easier than your
other proposal. Trains from Hatton Cross go into the southern platform
and leave to the west, trains from the west go into the northern
platform and leave to the east. One converging and no conflicting
movements.

There are lots of stations with many more departures in one direction
than the other. For example, Peterborough, Cambridge, Queen's Park,
Harrow & Wealdstone, Watford Junction, Kennington, Baker Street (Main),
Whitechapel, Edgware Road, Aldgate, ....

The only new thing is that there aren't any "all change" trains
arriving.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Graham J" wrote in message ...
I don't think too many people would find the situation very bizarre.
Whenever I am at a waiting at a station there always seems to be twice as
many trains going the other way :-)

I realise it would involve more tunneling and hence be more expensive but
surely a better solution would be to have trains go either HX - T123 - T5
or HX - T4 - T5? Obviously due to the single track at T4 they would then
all have to return T5 - T123.

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message

"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...

If one loop goes HX-T4-T123-HX and the other goes HX-T123-T5-HX,
then the diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the
end of the line, no?

T5 will not be on a loop. Some trains will go HX-T4-T123-HX as now
and the others will go HX-T123-T5(reverse)-T123-HX


So how will that work with the two platforms at T123? Will one be used
exclusively for London-bound trains that have gone round the loop,
and the other for bi-directional trains on a single track extension
to T5?

Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for both
sets of London-bound trains? (which would make more sense to the
traveller, but be logistically more difficult to implement, and
result in a bizarre station where twice as many trains went in one
direction as t'other.)

I had assumed that it was a double tunnel from T123 to T5, with two
platforms at T5. I don't think a single tunnel could maintain the
required service frequency.

The T4 loop would connect with the eastbound (northern) tunnel just
before the T123 station. To do this, the rebuilt loop will presumably
have to dive under the west-bound (and maybe both) tunnel, whereas the
current version is on the level -- hence the long closure.

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Clive D. W. Feather ) sucked my cock,
and then posted this ):

There are lots of stations with many more departures in one direction
than the other. For example, Peterborough, Cambridge, Queen's Park,
Harrow & Wealdstone, Watford Junction, Kennington, Baker Street
(Main), Whitechapel, Edgware Road, Aldgate, ....


The only new thing is that there aren't any "all change" trains
arriving.


Well quite. All of the above are multiple platform stations at which some
services from one direction terminate.

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL through
station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which the number of
trains in each direction is unequal.

BTN

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only
'conventional' LUL through station (e.g. one 'up'
platform and one 'down') from which the number
of trains in each direction is unequal.

Many LUL stations have unequal services at certain times of the day, and not
just at the beginning and end of the day.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Well quite. All of the above are multiple platform stations at which some
services from one direction terminate.

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL through
station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which the number of
trains in each direction is unequal.


Slonebridge Park & Harlesden have unequal numbers of LUL trains in
passenger service serving them...

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Ben Nunn wrote:
AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL
through station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which
the number of trains in each direction is unequal.

Is that in some way important or significant? If so I'd be intrigued to
learn.

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In article ,
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.

Plans are advanced for the closure of the T4 loop to allow the T5
extension to be connected. I think the latest plan is around December.
I'll try and confirm today at work, but I think we're looking at about a
two year closure.

The latest edition of Rail implies that the the first Picadilly line
tunnel between T123 and T5 is already complete and the second tunnel is
about to start. Both Picadilly line and HEX will have twin track
connections to T5 with two platforms at T5 for each service and an option
of two further platforms for HEX. There is also an implication (it is not
entirely clear in the article) that HEX trains will serve T123 and T5
only. The plan to split HEX trains at T123 into T4 and T5 portions seems
to have been abandoned. Also the new Paddington-Heathrow stopping service
"Heathrow Connect" will turn round at T123 when it starts next year (ie it
will not serve T4). It will eventually be extended to T5. So it looks like
T4 will not be seeing many trains !

David

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extensionto T5
 

gwr4090 wrote:
In article ,
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:

In message , Martin
Whelton writes

Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.


Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.


Plans are advanced for the closure of the T4 loop to allow the T5
extension to be connected. I think the latest plan is around December.
I'll try and confirm today at work, but I think we're looking at about a
two year closure.


The latest edition of Rail implies that the the first Picadilly line
tunnel between T123 and T5 is already complete and the second tunnel is
about to start. Both Picadilly line and HEX will have twin track
connections to T5 with two platforms at T5 for each service and an option
of two further platforms for HEX. There is also an implication (it is not
entirely clear in the article) that HEX trains will serve T123 and T5
only. The plan to split HEX trains at T123 into T4 and T5 portions seems
to have been abandoned. Also the new Paddington-Heathrow stopping service
"Heathrow Connect" will turn round at T123 when it starts next year (ie it
will not serve T4). It will eventually be extended to T5. So it looks like
T4 will not be seeing many trains !

David

I was always under the impression that the Piccadilly station would have
*three* platforms, like Cockfosters and Uxbridge, to improve
termination capacity. I also heard that full overruns would be provided
to further improve turnaround capacity. Is this still the case?

Furthermore, what are some honest dates for the commencement of
Piccadilly services to T5?

Brad

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extensionto T5
 

Nigel Pendse wrote:
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message


"Peter Smyth" wrote in message
...

If one loop goes HX-T4-T123-HX and the other goes HX-T123-T5-HX,
then the diagram will need to resemble a pair of testicles at the
end of the line, no?

T5 will not be on a loop. Some trains will go HX-T4-T123-HX as now
and the others will go HX-T123-T5(reverse)-T123-HX


So how will that work with the two platforms at T123? Will one be used
exclusively for London-bound trains that have gone round the loop,
and the other for bi-directional trains on a single track extension
to T5?

Or will it be one platform be for T5 only, and the other for both
sets of London-bound trains? (which would make more sense to the
traveller, but be logistically more difficult to implement, and
result in a bizarre station where twice as many trains went in one
direction as t'other.)


I had assumed that it was a double tunnel from T123 to T5, with two
platforms at T5. I don't think a single tunnel could maintain the
required service frequency.

I've always heard that there will be twin tracks to T5, with *three* bay
platforms and full overruns to provide maximum termination capacity.


The T4 loop would connect with the eastbound (northern) tunnel just
before the T123 station. To do this, the rebuilt loop will presumably
have to dive under the west-bound (and maybe both) tunnel, whereas the
current version is on the level -- hence the long closure.



Brad

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"gwr4090" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was due to
be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4 would be
temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all but
finished.

Plans are advanced for the closure of the T4 loop to allow the T5
extension to be connected. I think the latest plan is around December.
I'll try and confirm today at work, but I think we're looking at about a
two year closure.

The latest edition of Rail implies that the the first Picadilly line
tunnel between T123 and T5 is already complete and the second tunnel is
about to start. Both Picadilly line and HEX will have twin track
connections to T5 with two platforms at T5 for each service and an option
of two further platforms for HEX. There is also an implication (it is not
entirely clear in the article) that HEX trains will serve T123 and T5
only. The plan to split HEX trains at T123 into T4 and T5 portions seems
to have been abandoned.

So, another ****ing waste of existing infrastructure then? The Jubilee's
Green Park-Charing Cross (and tunnels almost as far as Aldwych) and the
Piccadilly's Holborn-Aldwych shuttle. Now the HEX T123-T4. Why not make use
of and expand existing expensively-tunnelled infrastructure instead of
mothballing it? This country makes me maaaaad!!!!

A complete joke.

Andy

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Andy wrote:
"gwr4090" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , Martin
Whelton writes
Do we know when construction work is due to start on the Piccadilly
extension to Terminal 5 as I understand that tunneling work was
due to be finished by next year. I also understand that Terminal 4
would be temporaily closed during the construction period.

Tunnelling is well under way and I believe the station box is all
but finished.

Plans are advanced for the closure of the T4 loop to allow the T5
extension to be connected. I think the latest plan is around
December. I'll try and confirm today at work, but I think we're
looking at about a two year closure.

The latest edition of Rail implies that the the first Picadilly line
tunnel between T123 and T5 is already complete and the second tunnel
is about to start. Both Picadilly line and HEX will have twin track
connections to T5 with two platforms at T5 for each service and an
option of two further platforms for HEX. There is also an
implication (it is not entirely clear in the article) that HEX
trains will serve T123 and T5 only. The plan to split HEX trains at
T123 into T4 and T5 portions seems to have been abandoned.

So, another ****ing waste of existing infrastructure then? The
Jubilee's Green Park-Charing Cross (and tunnels almost as far as
Aldwych) and the Piccadilly's Holborn-Aldwych shuttle. Now the HEX
T123-T4. Why not make use of and expand existing
expensively-tunnelled infrastructure instead of mothballing it? This
country makes me maaaaad!!!!

A complete joke.


Forward you complaints to BAA. IIRC they, or someone else, chose to resite
T5 away from its original location which would have been served by the T4
loop.

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...
So, another ****ing waste of existing infrastructure then? The
Jubilee's Green Park-Charing Cross (and tunnels almost as far as
Aldwych) and the Piccadilly's Holborn-Aldwych shuttle. Now the HEX
T123-T4. Why not make use of and expand existing
expensively-tunnelled infrastructure instead of mothballing it? This
country makes me maaaaad!!!!

A complete joke.


Forward you complaints to BAA. IIRC they, or someone else, chose to resite
T5 away from its original location which would have been served by the T4
loop.

WHy should that excuse a stupid decision taken by a TOC? There is no excuse
for closing T4. So alternate HEX trains would have alternate termini, BFD.
I'm sure passengers would cope as they're going to have to on the tube anyway.
Sorry , but the guy about is right , it is just more infrastructure being
binned for no good operational reason.

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
m
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message
...
So, another ****ing waste of existing infrastructure then? The
Jubilee's Green Park-Charing Cross (and tunnels almost as far as
Aldwych) and the Piccadilly's Holborn-Aldwych shuttle. Now the HEX
T123-T4. Why not make use of and expand existing
expensively-tunnelled infrastructure instead of mothballing it? This
country makes me maaaaad!!!!

A complete joke.


Forward you complaints to BAA. IIRC they, or someone else, chose to
resite T5 away from its original location which would have been
served by the T4 loop.

WHy should that excuse a stupid decision taken by a TOC? There is no
excuse
for closing T4. So alternate HEX trains would have alternate termini,
BFD.
I'm sure passengers would cope as they're going to have to on the
tube anyway.
Sorry , but the guy about is right , it is just more infrastructure
being
binned for no good operational reason.

What TOC? HEX trains are opereated by BAA, who also paid for and own
the T4 tunnel/station.

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Boltar" wrote in message

WHy should that excuse a stupid decision taken by a TOC? There is no
excuse
for closing T4. So alternate HEX trains would have alternate termini, BFD.
I'm sure passengers would cope as they're going to have to on the tube
anyway.
Sorry , but the guy about is right , it is just more infrastructure being
binned for no good operational reason.


Because if the railway infrastructure is built in the place that the
builders have been told a new station will be wanted and then someone
decides to move it then there's not much the railway people can do about it
is there?

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In article ,
Alistair Bell wrote:

I must be missing something. How exactly is anyone going to get from
T123 to T4 then? Currently the official way to transfer is HEX -- and
in that direction you'd have to change at Hatton Cross to get the
tube. It's pretty much a guarantee that TWO changes of train to get
from Padd to T4 is a non-starter.

I'd have to guess that they decided splitting the trains would take
too long (probably right) and they'll run alternate trains to each
destination. I can't believe for a moment that they'll close T4 HEX,
and I also find it hard to believe that they'd switch it to a shuttle
from T123, for the simple reason that people travelling to Heathrow
often have a LOT of luggage, and a change of train just isn't
acceptable.

I share your puzzlement about how T4 will be served by HEX after T5 opens,
but the details have yet to be announced. My expectation is that it might
indeed be a shuttle between T123 and T4. Passenger flow to T5 will need
more than a half hourly service.

If I were Heathrow Express, I'd run the slow service to T123 only
until T5 opens,

(which is the current plan)

simply because the (idiotic) single line to T4 can't
cope with it -- but after T5 opens, split both the express and slow
services 50/50 between T4 and T5.

I am not sure this will be possible, as there are no plans to double the
line to T4. The longer term plan is to run both HEX and Heathrow Connect
stoppers at 4tph each, with Crossrail and/or Airtrack taking over the
Heathrow Connect paths if they happen. It now appears that the premium HEX
service will continue independently of Crossrail/Airtrack.

As and when Crossrail happens, that's probably all T5 (assuming the line
to T5 is double-track).

The line to T5 will be double from the outset. T5 will have 2 platforms
initially for HEX/HC, with provision for a further 2 additional platforms
later.

David

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In article , Ben Nunn
writes
Well quite. All of the above are multiple platform stations at which some
services from one direction terminate.

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL through
station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which the number of
trains in each direction is unequal.

A quick think gives me:

Archway
Canons Park
Ealing Common
Farringdon (Circle)
Oakwood
Rayners Lane
Rickmansworth
Ruislip
Stonebridge Park
Tooting Broadway
Victoria (Victoria)
West Ham (Jubilee)
West Kensington
Whitechapel (ELL)
Willesden Green

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

In article , Nigel Pendse
writes
I had assumed that it was a double tunnel from T123 to T5, with two
platforms at T5.

That's my understanding, though possible with three platforms.

The T4 loop would connect with the eastbound (northern) tunnel just
before the T123 station. To do this, the rebuilt loop will presumably
have to dive under the west-bound (and maybe both) tunnel, whereas the
current version is on the level -- hence the long closure.

Why rebuild the loop? Why not just have the new westbound tunnel dive
under the loop, thus not requiring any rebuilding?

I don't understand the need for the long closure.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

gwr4090 wrote in message ...
I share your puzzlement about how T4 will be served by HEX after T5 opens,
but the details have yet to be announced. My expectation is that it might
indeed be a shuttle between T123 and T4. Passenger flow to T5 will need
more than a half hourly service.

A source which I'd best not name suggested to me a few months ago that
terminal 4 would become a freight only terminal. Is this true? I
don't know. It would, however, explain why plans to get passengers to
terminal 4 seem incomplete.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone else can shed more light.

PhilD

--

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , Ben Nunn
writes
Well quite. All of the above are multiple platform stations at which some
services from one direction terminate.

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL through
station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which the number of
trains in each direction is unequal.

A quick think gives me:

Archway
Canons Park
Ealing Common
Farringdon (Circle)
Oakwood
Rayners Lane
Rickmansworth
Ruislip
Stonebridge Park
Tooting Broadway
Victoria (Victoria)
West Ham (Jubilee)
West Kensington
Whitechapel (ELL)
Willesden Green


But most, if not all of these are stations with a terminal facilitiy, so are
not the same as the new T123 station at all. The number of trains departing
and arriving each platform from Tooting Broadway, for example, is exactly
the same - the number that leave empty in a southbound direction is equal to
the number that arrive empty on the Northbound platform.

BTN

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...
Clive D. W. Feather ) sucked my cock,
and then posted this ):

There are lots of stations with many more departures in one direction
than the other. For example, Peterborough, Cambridge, Queen's Park,
Harrow & Wealdstone, Watford Junction, Kennington, Baker Street
(Main), Whitechapel, Edgware Road, Aldgate, ....


The only new thing is that there aren't any "all change" trains
arriving.


Well quite. All of the above are multiple platform stations at which some
services from one direction terminate.

AFAIK, The new Heathrow 123 will be the only 'conventional' LUL through
station (e.g. one 'up' platform and one 'down') from which the number of
trains in each direction is unequal.

Roding Valley has 43 eastbound and 51 westbound trains a day with no trains
terminating there.

Peter Smyth

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

But most, if not all of these are stations with a terminal
facilitiy, so are not the same as the new T123 station
at all. The number of trains departing and arriving
each platform from Tooting Broadway, for example,
is exactly the same - the number that leave empty
in a southbound direction is equal to the number
that arrive empty on the Northbound platform.

Maybe you didn't get the message from M L Dickinson, but at Harlesden and
Stonebridge Park there are about 50% more trains to London than there are
from London. This is because the trains which terminate at Stonebridge Park
run empty from Willesden Junction, due to LU not having any staff to perform
the tipping-out duty at Stonebridge Park.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

But most, if not all of these are stations with a terminal
facilitiy, so are not the same as the new T123 station
at all. The number of trains departing and arriving
each platform from Tooting Broadway, for example,
is exactly the same - the number that leave empty
in a southbound direction is equal to the number
that arrive empty on the Northbound platform.

Maybe you didn't get the message from M L Dickinson, but at Harlesden and
Stonebridge Park there are about 50% more trains to London than there are
from London. This is because the trains which terminate at Stonebridge Park
run empty from Willesden Junction, due to LU not having any staff to perform
the tipping-out duty at Stonebridge Park.

Why can't the driver do it they they do elsewhere on the system?

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Boltar wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in
message ...
"Ben Nunn" wrote in message
...

But most, if not all of these are stations with a terminal
facilitiy, so are not the same as the new T123 station
at all. The number of trains departing and arriving
each platform from Tooting Broadway, for example,
is exactly the same - the number that leave empty
in a southbound direction is equal to the number
that arrive empty on the Northbound platform.

Maybe you didn't get the message from M L Dickinson, but at
Harlesden and
Stonebridge Park there are about 50% more trains to London than
there are
from London. This is because the trains which terminate at
Stonebridge Park
run empty from Willesden Junction, due to LU not having any staff
to perform
the tipping-out duty at Stonebridge Park.

Why can't the driver do it they they do elsewhere on the system?

Because, without assistance from station staff, he has to walk the whole
length of the train and back, checking each car and closing the doors,
and this holds up following trains.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Richard J." wrote in message ...
Maybe you didn't get the message from M L Dickinson, but at
Harlesden and
Stonebridge Park there are about 50% more trains to London than
there are
from London. This is because the trains which terminate at
Stonebridge Park
run empty from Willesden Junction, due to LU not having any staff
to perform
the tipping-out duty at Stonebridge Park.

Why can't the driver do it they they do elsewhere on the system?

Because, without assistance from station staff, he has to walk the whole
length of the train and back, checking each car and closing the doors,
and this holds up following trains.

Thats never bothered them on the piccadilly line. Many a time I've been tipped
off at wood green to wait while the driver wanders down the train without any
station staff around. Besides , isn't the driver responsible for the train so
he has to do it anyway?

B2003

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

Boltar wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Maybe you didn't get the message from M L Dickinson, but at
Harlesden and Stonebridge Park there are about 50% more
trains to London than there are from London. This is because
the trains which terminate at Stonebridge Park run empty
from Willesden Junction, due to LU not having any staff to
perform the tipping-out duty at Stonebridge Park.

Why can't the driver do it they they do elsewhere on the system?

Because, without assistance from station staff, he has to walk
the whole length of the train and back, checking each car and
closing the doors, and this holds up following trains.

Thats never bothered them on the piccadilly line. Many a time
I've been tipped off at wood green to wait while the driver
wanders down the train without any station staff around.
Besides , isn't the driver responsible for the train so he has
to do it anyway?

That's probably because Wood Green isn't a scheduled reversing point,
and hence staff are not routinely available to support tipping out. It
may be worth a slight delay to the eastbound service in order to plug a
very long gap in the westbound.

Re your last point, responsibility doesn't mean he has to do everything
himself. He can accept an assurance from other qualified staff, in this
and other cases.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Piccadilly line extension to Terminal 5/Heathrow Express extension to T5
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...

Because, without assistance from station staff,
he has to walk the whole length of the train and
back, checking each car and closing the doors,
and this holds up following trains.

Thats never bothered them on the piccadilly line.
Many a time I've been tipped off at wood green
to wait while the driver wanders down the train
without any station staff around.

That's probably because Wood Green isn't a scheduled reversing point,

Also, LU would presumably be fined if they delayed Silverlink trains at
Stonebridge Park, while this is not an issue at Wood Green.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes