Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.
Fortunately it was a company car so once the situation was clear other
people whose job it was handled the insurance claims and counterclaims. It
took ages and apart from answering the odd question to confirm something
or that I was standing by my original statement I was glad not to be
involved.
If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.


When Southampton still had a cross channel ferry service I saw the
aftermath of an incident where there had been a 3 car shunt, you could tell
they had just come off the ferry as the first vehicle was French registered
the middle Spanish and the third Belgian.
A copper was trying to sort things out and was on the receiving end of
excited continentals all shouting their version of events in their language
, he wore a very “ why did this happen on my watch “ expression.

I expect the insurance payouts took a while to get sorted .

In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.

--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.
--
Roland Perry

Å´Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.


I haven’t driven one, but sat in a couple and one van. The trickledown down
from top end market to more everyday cars seems to be happening quite fast,
one of the cars was a Vauxhall Astra about 3 years old and the other a
Volkswagen Golf now about 5 years old and more typical,of what many people
drive than a Range Rover or top end Mercedes . The van was a well specced
Ford Transit about six months old.
I would not be surprised if they will rapidly become more common as models
come up for replacement or revamp as getting rid of a big mechanical lever
in favour of a discreet button or flap switch gives designers the chance to
make the interior look a little tidier ,spacious or room for another cup
holder.

GH

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

In message , at 19:38:06 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or
switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use
it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because
it's OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I had to help someone with a Honda Jazz which we couldn't get out of the
garage to jump-start, because without battery charge it was impossible
to release the automatic parking brake.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:38:06 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is
well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on
many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it —
the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the
parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the
parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because it's
OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I've just scrapped a perfectly servable car because some peripheral
electronic component failed and cost more to repair that the car is worth

tim

"Marland" wrote in message
...
Å´Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul
2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake
on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is
well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on
many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.


I haven’t driven one, but sat in a couple and one van. The trickledown
down
from top end market to more everyday cars seems to be happening quite
fast,
one of the cars was a Vauxhall Astra about 3 years old and the other a
Volkswagen Golf now about 5 years old and more typical,of what many
people
drive than a Range Rover or top end Mercedes . The van was a well specced
Ford Transit about six months old.
I would not be surprised if they will rapidly become more common as models
come up for replacement or revamp as getting rid of a big mechanical lever
in favour of a discreet button or flap switch gives designers the chance
to
make the interior look a little tidier ,spacious or room for another cup
holder.

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

tim





GH

In message , at 10:27:58 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because
it's OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I've just scrapped a perfectly servable car because some peripheral
electronic component failed and cost more to repair that the car is
worth

I've been there - a $10 part that the main dealer charges £1000 to fit,
and because it was 'electronically keyed' to the engine, independents
can't do it. Another common issue is engine management systems giving
up the ghost, and costing more to buy a new one than the car is worth.

--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:30:55 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

The model is a proxy for the demographic of the people who tend to buy
them, and your insurance company had decided that on balance people
buying the Ghia were worse drivers than those buying the GL. They'll
have some stats to back that up, of course.
--
Roland Perry