In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.

But if what you want to do is service two SIMs that you'd have anyway,
on one bit of hardware, then the opportunities open up a bit. Even on
locked phone because (for example) GiffGaff and Tesco both use O2, and
Virgin/Orange/T-Mobile all share EE.

Yes, some of those brands are a bit long in the tooth, but I've managed
to acquire non-contract SIMs for all of them (although the Orange one
expired recently, probably because I'd not used it enough).

To the extent that in the past at least the same model phone has been
dual SIM as standard on worldwide sale but single-SIM on the UK SKU.

Same headline model, but a different part number.

I just checked on orange.ro, and in their current catalogue they
have 122 dual SIM phones, and only 71 single SIM - to add some
hard facts to my anecdata. (It must be around a decade since I
owned a single-SIM phone, but when I was in the UK it was a
feature I had to search for, now it's more or less standard.
Except for Apple of course, but then that's why I switched away
from iPhone in the first place... I think they can finally do
dual-SIM now provided your carrier supports e-SIM for one of
them, though.)

It's easier to switch SIMs on an iPhone than many others, so it's
possibility for those occasions when one finds a holiday let that
doesn't have coverage. But obviously no good for being able to operate
to on-the-fly.

One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

In other news, Crossrail will have wifi and 4G when it opens in December
2018. [when ?? - ed]
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul


One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally
fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect
automatically, but seldom does.

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.

Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you could
switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too convenient
for users whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the
battery and messing about trying to get some sum postage sized thing into a
tiny slot at an awkward angle. And now with ever shrinking SIM sizes they're
almost impossible to change without tweezers.

Yes, some of those brands are a bit long in the tooth, but I've managed
to acquire non-contract SIMs for all of them (although the Orange one
expired recently, probably because I'd not used it enough).

Since when has buying PAYG SIMs for most networks ever been a problem? You talk
as if they're a rarity.

In message , at 08:39:30 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, remarked:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.

Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you could
switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too convenient

I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM.

Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person
would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use it in.

But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and
contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used
with a SIM from a rival network, or even by using up the scraps on a SIM
from their own network.

Hence the extra inconvenience of having to make a phone with such a
large slot in it was actually running counter to their commercial
interests.

for users whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the
battery and messing about trying to get some sum postage sized thing into a
tiny slot at an awkward angle.

That's more to do with shrinking phone sizes. It doesn't have to be that
bad if there's room for a so-called standard mini-SIM (rather than micro
or nano), especially if the phone has a clip-on battery.

And now with ever shrinking SIM sizes they're
almost impossible to change without tweezers.

Yes, some of those brands are a bit long in the tooth, but I've managed
to acquire non-contract SIMs for all of them (although the Orange one
expired recently, probably because I'd not used it enough).

Since when has buying PAYG SIMs for most networks ever been a problem? You talk
as if they're a rarity.

Ones where the credit rolls over and you don't have to make a regular
calls to keep them alive, aren't quite as common as you claim. The
networks hate them because they tend to get used in "glovebox" phones
were they have all the costs of maintaining the number and the billing
records, for virtually no revenue.

Then there's a few phones which need a "5v" SIM, and don't work with a
3v one. Those SIMs are getting harder to find (some say that it's only
Pound-shop Orange SIMs these days, although I have a very old T-Mobile
SIM which is compliant).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:21:37 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul


One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally
fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect
automatically, but seldom does.

I think you need the Virgin "wifi-buddy" app running on the phone, but
it's a long time since I tried connecting.

Hoho, it's now called "Virgin Media Connect", and is one of those
Marmite apps with a predominance of 5* and 1* ratings. It's entirely
possible the 1* ratings are because of some fundamental incompatibility
issues, rather than fat-fingered users.

Needs Android 5, apparently, which is why it's not on my phone any more.

Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.
--
Roland Perry

wrote in message ...
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.

Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you
could
switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too
convenient
for users

it mitigated against the demand for ever smaller phones, but I'm sure you
knew that really.

Engineers didn't like creating designs for these ever smaller SIMs. It was
a real PITA. But it was what Marketing wanted

whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the
battery

IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM you
still had to fit it in under the battery

tim

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:21:37 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul


One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally
fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect
automatically, but seldom does.

I think you need the Virgin "wifi-buddy" app running on the phone, but
it's a long time since I tried connecting.

Hoho, it's now called "Virgin Media Connect", and is one of those
Marmite apps with a predominance of 5* and 1* ratings. It's entirely
possible the 1* ratings are because of some fundamental incompatibility
issues, rather than fat-fingered users.

I do have the app, but it still doesn't work properly. I might not be using
it correctly, of course, but I'm sure it (or the predecessor app) did work.
I don't really have much need for it, as I'm not usually waiting long
enough in deep Tube stations to be able to use it. And I don't know of a
way of sending and receiving texts via station WiFi.


Needs Android 5, apparently, which is why it's not on my phone any more.

I'm on Android 9.


Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.

My Android 9 phone is dual sim.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 08:39:30 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019,
remarked:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.

Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you
could
switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too
convenient

I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM.

Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person
would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use it in.

But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and
contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used
with a SIM from a rival network,

They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked

My "acquired" smart phone still is

tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Then there's a few phones which need a "5v" SIM, and don't work with a 3v
one. Those SIMs are getting harder to find (some say that it's only
Pound-shop Orange SIMs these days,

Thinks

why would someone pay even as much as a pound for a SIM?


tim

In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked:

I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM.

Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person
would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use it in.

But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone
(and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised
being used with a SIM from a rival network,

They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked

My "acquired" smart phone still is

Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual.
--
Roland Perry