"Clank" wrote in message
...
"tim..." Wrote in message:
counted...I don't recall working on "terminals" where memory was measured
in peanuts
we had enough of it.

Ahh, POCSAG+ and 8051 microcontrollers with 256 bytes of RAM, how

well of course such devices were still available

and if you worked on a "cheap" or simple consumer product they would still
be used

but no-one used these for mobile (or cordless) phones

tim

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 08:21:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul


One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally
fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect
automatically, but seldom does.

Maybe due to the 'phone rather than the hot spot ? Of two 'phones
which I use, one needs to log on to LU/Virgin and The Cloud at
stations the first time it is used there each day while the other
seems to do so automatically. IIRC there is a setting in the murkier
depths of the WiFi setup which only exists on one of them.

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:04:28 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 14:31:13 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked:

I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM.

Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a
person would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use


But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone
(and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised
being used with a SIM from a rival network,

They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked

My "acquired" smart phone still is

Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual.

I know

but you seemed not to understand it as the solution to people "sharing"
phones by swapping SIMs in/out

Do keep up: "[Opportunities open up] Even on a locked phone because
(for example) GiffGaff and Tesco both use O2, and Virgin/Orange/T-Mobile
all share EE."

O2 locking also seems to die eventually by around 18-24 months but it
might depend on whether or not a 'phone was originally purchased
outright.

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 08:21:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul


One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates
Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone.

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london-
underground

I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally
fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect
automatically, but seldom does.

Maybe due to the 'phone rather than the hot spot ? Of two 'phones
which I use, one needs to log on to LU/Virgin and The Cloud at
stations the first time it is used there each day while the other
seems to do so automatically. IIRC there is a setting in the murkier
depths of the WiFi setup which only exists on one of them.


I've probably not investigated enough. I just don't spend long enough
waiting in deep Tube stations to have much use or need for the capability.
Above ground, I just use 4G data.

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.

My Android 9 phone is dual sim.

Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a
standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby.

If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active
dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero.

Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I
probably wouldn't need an SD card).

Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable
batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention
except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me
with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b

Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the
boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though,
which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the
back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to
this when I need to replace my current phone).

Mark

Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.

My Android 9 phone is dual sim.

Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a
standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby.

If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active
dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero.

Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I
probably wouldn't need an SD card).

Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable
batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention
except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me
with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b

Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the
boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though,
which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the
back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to
this when I need to replace my current phone).


I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense
that Roland meant? Few modern phones do.

I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing
screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index
finger on the sensor.

On 14/07/2019 10:35, tim... wrote:

IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM
you still had to fit it in under the battery

I still have my old Orange mr30 that took a full size SIM. It still
worked the last time that I tried it, but the battery is now dead beyond
all possibility of resurrection :-(

Going back to dual SIM, whatever happened to the Orange system of two
numbers (Line 2) on a single SIM..? I had it for a while back in the
day, but ISTR Orange killed it off, I don't recall any other UK network
ever using it..?



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:42:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.

My Android 9 phone is dual sim.

Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a
standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby.

If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active
dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero.

Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I
probably wouldn't need an SD card).

Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable
batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention
except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me
with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b

Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the
boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though,
which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the
back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to
this when I need to replace my current phone).


I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense
that Roland meant? Few modern phones do.

Yes, they do. Mine certainly does, anyway, and looking at the spec
(and a bit of additional Googling) for the newer one suggests it does,
too. You do have to take the rear case off to access the battery, so
it's not as simple as just shoving it into a slot or clipping it on
like you used to do with the pre-smartphone bricks. But the case just
clips on and can be removed with your fingernails if they're robust
enough (and with a small piece of plastic or a small screwdriver if
they're not).

More generally, Moto appears to have deliberately chosen to target
this kind of use case. I came across them when I asked a similar
question to Roland's in another place, and was given Moto as a
recommendation. All of their phones have simple, clip-on cases that
are easily removed to reveal a plug-in replaceable battery (no screws
or other tools needed), and the dual-sim versions are not only active
dual-sim but also have the SD slot separately to the sim slots (so you
don't have to choose between a second sim and an SD card, unlike some
phones). Their version of Android is also pretty close to vanilla,
again unlike the heavily customised version found in phones from some
other popular suppliers.

The downside is that, for a mid-priced phone, they're not usually the
top performers when it comes to camera quality, processor power, etc.
So if that sort of thing matters, you can often find better value for
money elsewhere. But they're perfectly good enough for most purposes
unless you do want to push the envelope. And I find the flexibility
(particularly the active dual-sim, which is the reason I bought one in
the first place) more than outweighs the fact that the camera doesn't
come with bragging rights on Instagram.

I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing
screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index
finger on the sensor.

I suppose it's worth trying. It's just that I'm used to it being where
it is on my curent phone.

Mark

Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:42:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone
(dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this.

My Android 9 phone is dual sim.

Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a
standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby.

If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active
dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero.

Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I
probably wouldn't need an SD card).

Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable
batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention
except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me
with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b

Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the
boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though,
which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the
back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to
this when I need to replace my current phone).


I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense
that Roland meant? Few modern phones do.

Yes, they do. Mine certainly does, anyway, and looking at the spec
(and a bit of additional Googling) for the newer one suggests it does,
too. You do have to take the rear case off to access the battery, so
it's not as simple as just shoving it into a slot or clipping it on
like you used to do with the pre-smartphone bricks. But the case just
clips on and can be removed with your fingernails if they're robust
enough (and with a small piece of plastic or a small screwdriver if
they're not).

More generally, Moto appears to have deliberately chosen to target
this kind of use case. I came across them when I asked a similar
question to Roland's in another place, and was given Moto as a
recommendation. All of their phones have simple, clip-on cases that
are easily removed to reveal a plug-in replaceable battery (no screws
or other tools needed), and the dual-sim versions are not only active
dual-sim but also have the SD slot separately to the sim slots (so you
don't have to choose between a second sim and an SD card, unlike some
phones). Their version of Android is also pretty close to vanilla,
again unlike the heavily customised version found in phones from some
other popular suppliers.

The downside is that, for a mid-priced phone, they're not usually the
top performers when it comes to camera quality, processor power, etc.
So if that sort of thing matters, you can often find better value for
money elsewhere. But they're perfectly good enough for most purposes
unless you do want to push the envelope. And I find the flexibility
(particularly the active dual-sim, which is the reason I bought one in
the first place) more than outweighs the fact that the camera doesn't
come with bragging rights on Instagram.

Yes, I also have a Moto phone, and it's a good all-rounder, but it had
never occurred to me to try and open the case, with its camera and
fingerprint sensor. And, indeed, it's not user-replaceable:
http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/126930/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g6-play%3F

https://support.motorola.com/uk/en/products/cell-phones/moto-g-family/moto-g6-play/documents/MS126899

The same seems to be true of the G7 range. Maybe only the older (up to G5)
Moto models have user-replaceable batteries?

http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135919/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g7%3F

The camera in my phone is quite basic, but I don't care as I seldom use it.
I'm normally carrying a much better 'proper' camera.


I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing
screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index
finger on the sensor.

I suppose it's worth trying. It's just that I'm used to it being where
it is on my curent phone.

It soon becomes natural, and the bigger screen is welcome.

It's the same with my new iPad Pro: I was dubious about facial recognition
rather than the touch ID built into the now-gone Home button, but I soon
adapted to it. I now welcome the larger screen instead.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked:
Roland Perry Wrote in message:
That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role.

Only, for some reason, rare in the UK.

The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one
provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the
opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite
limited.



I was quite surprised to find the DORO 2404 granny phone that was sold in
LIDl last year for £24.99
was dual Sim. As sold the purchaser was steered to Vodafone as it came
with VF PAY as you go
SIM in the package , but my own 3 SIM in the other slot worked fine which
is understandable
as having a dual SIM linked to one provider would pointless in most
circumstances.

GH