In message , at 14:15:27 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
On 08/09/2019 13:06, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's
bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone,
connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?
The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than
a traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include
any bus routes.

Doesn't Oxford have a pedestrianised centre that is accessible by bus?

You can get to the edge of it, but it's small enough that you can walk
the rest of the way. Not quite the same as even the Congestion Charge
Zone (if only ZEVs are allowed inside).

London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre, and I
suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).
Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

If they are hybrids you don't have to have transfer stations.

Only if they can cover the whole of inside the N/S Circular on battery,
once the zone has extended that far.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 14:16:46 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
*I had an idea they were already considering as far as the M25.

There's a certain amount of resistance to that from communities
inside* the M25 that do not consider themselves part of London.

*There's resistance from a lot of people! (See also colloquial
conflation* of GLA/M25).

The difference being that the Mayor's writ does not extend as far as
peoples perceptions of London.
Those perceptions including "The GLA", "Inside the M25", "Patrolled
by the Met Police", "with 070 phone numbers", "served by TfL bus
routes" and no doubt other metrics as well.

You left out served by tube trains :-)

So it's a bit fuzzy round the edge, but "M25" is a reasonable and
commonly used approximation.

But still one that people inside but not in London have strong feelings
about.

The strong feelings I've read about are people near the M25, but in GLA,
who think ZEV shouldn't go that far out.
--
Roland Perry

On 08/09/2019 16:03, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:15:27 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
On 08/09/2019 13:06, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019,Â* Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's
bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will
be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be
possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone,
connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?
Â*The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than
aÂ* traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't
include anyÂ* bus routes.

Doesn't Oxford have a pedestrianised centre that is accessible by bus?

You can get to the edge of it, but it's small enough that you can walk
the rest of the way. Not quite the same as even the Congestion Charge
Zone (if only ZEVs are allowed inside).

Wasn't there a fuss some years back because a car tried to follow a bus
into the pedestrian area and got thrown aside by the rising pillar and
nearly hit a pedestrian nearby?


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08/09/2019 16:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:16:46 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
Â*I had an idea they were already considering as far as the M25.

There's a certain amount of resistance to that from communities
insideÂ* the M25 that do not consider themselves part of London.
Â*
Â*There's resistance from a lot of people! (See also colloquial
conflationÂ* of GLA/M25).

The difference being that the Mayor's writ does not extend as far as
peoples perceptions of London.
Â*Those perceptions including "The GLA", "Inside the M25", "Patrolled
byÂ* the Met Police", "with 070 phone numbers", "served by TfL bus
routes"Â* and no doubt other metrics as well.

You left out served by tube trains :-)

Â*So it's a bit fuzzy round the edge, but "M25" is a reasonable and
commonly used approximation.

But still one that people inside but not in London have strong
feelings about.

The strong feelings I've read about are people near the M25, but in GLA,
who think ZEV shouldn't go that far out.

I was thinking of those who object to being regarded as part London in
any circumstances, not just the Total Exclusion Zone.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:16:46 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
Â*I had an idea they were already considering as far as the M25.

There's a certain amount of resistance to that from communities
insideÂ* the M25 that do not consider themselves part of London.

Â*There's resistance from a lot of people! (See also colloquial
conflationÂ* of GLA/M25).

The difference being that the Mayor's writ does not extend as far as
peoples perceptions of London.
Those perceptions including "The GLA", "Inside the M25", "Patrolled
by the Met Police", "with 070 phone numbers", "served by TfL bus
routes" and no doubt other metrics as well.

You left out served by tube trains :-)

So it's a bit fuzzy round the edge, but "M25" is a reasonable and
commonly used approximation.

But still one that people inside but not in London have strong feelings
about.

The strong feelings I've read about are people near the M25, but in GLA,
who think ZEV shouldn't go that far out.

The ZEV zone would be much smaller, no more than the Congestion zone (ie,
less than Zone 1). The LEV zone is much larger.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:15:27 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:
On 08/09/2019 13:06, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's
bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone,
connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?
The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than
a traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include
any bus routes.

Doesn't Oxford have a pedestrianised centre that is accessible by bus?

You can get to the edge of it, but it's small enough that you can walk
the rest of the way. Not quite the same as even the Congestion Charge
Zone (if only ZEVs are allowed inside).

London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre, and I
suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).
Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

If they are hybrids you don't have to have transfer stations.

Only if they can cover the whole of inside the N/S Circular on battery,
once the zone has extended that far.

The ZEV zone will be far smaller than that, at least for the foreseeable
future.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:13:57 on
Sun, 8 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:06:49 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone, connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?

The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than a
traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include any
bus routes.

So no problem?

Not in the sense that it could be embarrassingly deficient in the
absence of ZEV buses.

In the tiny Oxford ZEV zone?


London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre, and I suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).

Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

Sounds like it's a non-issue?

Other than either the immense cost of ZEV buses to populate inside the
N/S Circular (or wherever the boundary was that week) and transfer
stations to the less environmental buses for people with the temerity to
want to go from inside to outside the zone.

We were discussing Oxford, not London.

In message , at 16:23:58 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:

Doesn't Oxford have a pedestrianised centre that is accessible by bus?

You can get to the edge of it, but it's small enough that you can
walk the rest of the way. Not quite the same as even the Congestion
Charge Zone (if only ZEVs are allowed inside).

Wasn't there a fuss some years back because a car tried to follow a bus
into the pedestrian area and got thrown aside by the rising pillar and
nearly hit a pedestrian nearby?

Not that I recall. But other cities have.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:34:45 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:13:57 on
Sun, 8 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:06:49 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone, connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?

The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than a
traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include any
bus routes.

So no problem?

Not in the sense that it could be embarrassingly deficient in the
absence of ZEV buses.

In the tiny Oxford ZEV zone?


London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre,
******
and I suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).

Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

Sounds like it's a non-issue?

Other than either the immense cost of ZEV buses to populate inside the
N/S Circular (or wherever the boundary was that week) and transfer
stations to the less environmental buses for people with the temerity to
want to go from inside to outside the zone.

We were discussing Oxford, not London.

See ******

--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transport-secretary-grant-shapps-on-why-he-bought-a-tesla-model-3-0tnhhks7j?shareToken=a70221daed84a5f553e362f97fc7a 5a7

so the reasons seem to be:

because he got government grant of 3,500 - for a near 50 grand car (after
options) is that really a deal maker?

It seems to be the biggest factor with BEVs and PHEVs: withdraw the
subsidy, and sales plummet. That's been demonstrated in both the UK and
many other countries. And when you consider that, even with the subsidy,
most BEVs are also loss-making for the manufacturer, it's clear that the
gap between what most people are willing to pay and what it costs to make
them is still large (though shrinking).


So he can save on the ultra-low emission zone fee, - surely your average
second hand petrol model achieves that

Perhaps not for long?

in what way