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Jobsworth driver
On 23/11/2019 17:05, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote: On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000 MikeS wrote: On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote: Luckily ****s like him seem to be rarer these days. Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often. Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits as well. Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking. Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think we know the answer to that. They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not fitted to the trains or the stations. Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only 700. What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with? So you admit it is fitted to the trains then? Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock. [1] 442s were retrofitted with non-compliant DOO equipment for Southern, I don't know whether it's been removed during the SWR refurb but I imagine so. Talking of which, are the 442s ever going to reenter service? -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:05:27 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote: On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000 MikeS wrote: On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote: Luckily ****s like him seem to be rarer these days. Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often. Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits as well. Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking. Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think we know the answer to that. They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not fitted to the trains or the stations. Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only 700. What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with? So you admit it is fitted to the trains then? Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock. So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service. 30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL* Are they even cleared for routes other than the ones they currently operate on? (No I can't be bothered to wade through https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/ to find out) Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service. 30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL* So no trains at all is a better option is it? I suspect a lot of the commuters might disagree. Are they even cleared for routes other than the ones they currently operate on? (No I can't be bothered to wade through Who cares? They can operate on the routes they ARE cleared for. Whats the problem? |
Jobsworth driver
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Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:50:07 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service. 30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL* So no trains at all is a better option is it? I suspect a lot of the commuters might disagree. Perhaps you can tell us how your detailed, well-thought-out plan is superior to what SWR is planning? https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action |
Jobsworth driver
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. |
Jobsworth driver
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. |
Jobsworth driver
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote: wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote: On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000 MikeS wrote: On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote: Luckily ****s like him seem to be rarer these days. Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often. Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits as well. Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking. Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think we know the answer to that. SWR can't do DOO. They say they're planning to run 50% of services, presumably using management/office staff as guards. As for crossing or not crossing picket lines, I believe it's technically secondary industrial action and therefore technically illegal, Only if they have been encouraged by their union. AFAIR the individual members making individual decisions are a very different legal matter. It is further complicated by the later introduction of the Human Rights Act. but also AIUI most TOCs involved in similar disputes have said they won't take action (beyond loss of a day's pay) against those of other grades who don't cross picket lines. Incidentally AIUI the RMT will be paying the striking guards to compensate for loss of income; that won't of course apply to other grades. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? The largest vehicle I've driven was a long wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter van (from a van hire place when we were moving house), having only driven a car until then. Reversing it onto our drive was nerve-wracking, even with the aid of a reversing camera: I'm so used to having the view through the rear window via a rear-view mirror, in addition to the door mirrors. Remembering to drive slightly beyond a right-angle turn before starting to steer, so as to avoid clipping the kerb with the back wheels, was something I *usually* did right but occasionally misjudged. By the third day it held no terrors for me, and I even managed to parallel park it (obviously in a longer slot than for my car!) on the first go - thank goodness for the passenger door mirror, angled downwards, to see when the rear wheel is about to touch the kerb, so as to determine when to start steering hard right to tuck the front end in. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. |
Jobsworth driver
NY wrote:
"Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? The largest vehicle I've driven was a long wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter van (from a van hire place when we were moving house), having only driven a car until then. Reversing it onto our drive was nerve-wracking, even with the aid of a reversing camera: I'm so used to having the view through the rear window via a rear-view mirror, in addition to the door mirrors. Remembering to drive slightly beyond a right-angle turn before starting to steer, so as to avoid clipping the kerb with the back wheels, was something I *usually* did right but occasionally misjudged. By the third day it held no terrors for me, and I even managed to parallel park it (obviously in a longer slot than for my car!) on the first go - thank goodness for the passenger door mirror, angled downwards, to see when the rear wheel is about to touch the kerb, so as to determine when to start steering hard right to tuck the front end in. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? |
Jobsworth driver
On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Jobsworth driver
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. He's already said they'd both go if they lose. He wants a young, inexperienced front-woman to be the new leader, with him pulling the strings. He prefers to operate in the shadows. For example, this is what Kate Hoey says of him: The Shadow Chancellor, she says, “has become quite a nasty, devious figure behind the scenes”; McDonnell is the one pulling the strings now. “After a while, Jeremy realised that he was losing and he just seems to have given in.” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/23/john-mcdonnell-nasty-devious-figure-behind-scenes-kate-hoey/ |
Jobsworth driver
On 24/11/2019 08:39, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. He's already said they'd both go if they lose. He wants a young, inexperienced front-woman to be the new leader, with him pulling the strings. He prefers to operate in the shadows. For example, this is what Kate Hoey says of him: The Shadow Chancellor, she says, “has become quite a nasty, devious figure behind the scenes”; McDonnell is the one pulling the strings now. “After a while, Jeremy realised that he was losing and he just seems to have given in.” He was always the one pulling the strings. He might not remain shadow chancellor, though I wouldn't bet on it. He can always reluctantly agree to remain in post just to oversea the leadership changes and then allow the new leader to keep him on. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Jobsworth driver
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 24/11/2019 08:39, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. He's already said they'd both go if they lose. He wants a young, inexperienced front-woman to be the new leader, with him pulling the strings. He prefers to operate in the shadows. For example, this is what Kate Hoey says of him: The Shadow Chancellor, she says, “has become quite a nasty, devious figure behind the scenes”; McDonnell is the one pulling the strings now. “After a while, Jeremy realised that he was losing and he just seems to have given in.” He was always the one pulling the strings. He might not remain shadow chancellor, though I wouldn't bet on it. He can always reluctantly agree to remain in post just to oversea the leadership changes and then allow the new leader to keep him on. Could be, but I think he might prefer not to have a formal shadow cabinet role. If the polls are even half-right, Labour is set for another miserably long stint in opposition, and may only have around 200 seats in the Commons, so being in the Shadow Cabinet won't count for much. It could be that the long-forecast split between the centre-left moderates and Momentum finally happens after the meltdown. McDonnell might be more interested in fighting that war with the hated Blairites than with coming up with economic policies that no-one cares about. Corbyn is 70, and looks much older. He looks like he belongs in a retirement home, not No 10. Mcdonnell is 68, and probably won't be fighting the next election. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/election-2019-a-guide-to-what-the-polls-mean-and-what-they-dont |
Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:50:07 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service. 30 units out of a fleet of 400 to cover the entirety of SWR *ROTFL* So no trains at all is a better option is it? I suspect a lot of the commuters might disagree. Are they even cleared for routes other than the ones they currently operate on? (No I can't be bothered to wade through Who cares? They can operate on the routes they ARE cleared for. Whats the problem? SWR drivers are not trained on DOO, they don't have an agreement for DOO, the stations haven't been risk assessed for DOO. To sort all that out will take way longer than a month, and trying to force a DOO agreement on the drivers may result in them deciding to strike too. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000 Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote: On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000 MikeS wrote: On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote: Luckily ****s like him seem to be rarer these days. Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often. Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits as well. Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking. Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think we know the answer to that. SWR can't do DOO. They say they're planning to run 50% of services, presumably using management/office staff as guards. As for crossing or not crossing picket lines, I believe it's technically secondary industrial action and therefore technically illegal, Only if they have been encouraged by their union. AFAIR the individual members making individual decisions are a very different legal matter. It is further complicated by the later introduction of the Human Rights Act. Thanks for the clarification! :) Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:22:23 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: NY wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? The largest vehicle I've driven was a long wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter van (from a van hire place when we were moving house), having only driven a car until then. Reversing it onto our drive was nerve-wracking, even with the aid of a reversing camera: I'm so used to having the view through the rear window via a rear-view mirror, in addition to the door mirrors. Remembering to drive slightly beyond a right-angle turn before starting to steer, so as to avoid clipping the kerb with the back wheels, was something I *usually* did right but occasionally misjudged. By the third day it held no terrors for me, and I even managed to parallel park it (obviously in a longer slot than for my car!) on the first go - thank goodness for the passenger door mirror, angled downwards, to see when the rear wheel is about to touch the kerb, so as to determine when to start steering hard right to tuck the front end in. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? I did. |
Jobsworth driver
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:30:15 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic controllers. Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules that haven't changed since the victorian era. No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never learn. The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev and Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car test but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test. |
Jobsworth driver
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:13:31 -0000
"NY" wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? Articulated HGV so I had a bit of a prior advantage. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. Driving a lorry is like driving a large car for me. Driving a bus is wierd however because you're about a meter in front of the steering wheels so you have to leave turning movements later than feels normal. |
Jobsworth driver
On 24/11/2019 10:50, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:30:15 +0000 Charles Ellson wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic controllers. Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules that haven't changed since the victorian era. No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never learn. The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev and Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car test but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test. My cousin did his HGV test using all that was available... A tank transported loaded with a tank. Apparently he mounted the kerb several times and bent a few bollards but still passed. |
Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:22:23 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: NY wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? I did. So you already had (a) experience of driving road vehicles (b) experience of driving large road vehicles. 5 days to learn that the front wheels are further back and that you have to look out for passengers? Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 22:30:15 +0000 Charles Ellson wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic controllers. Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules that haven't changed since the victorian era. No, it took you 4 days to learn how to steer a bus. It takes much longer than that to learn how to drive any road vehicle due to the different circumstances that can be experienced. Some people never learn. The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev and Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car test but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test. And yet with the same breath you dismiss train driving as 'pulling levers'. Surely you realise that the train driving assessment is just as strict, if not more so? Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:13:31 -0000 "NY" wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? Articulated HGV so I had a bit of a prior advantage. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. Driving a lorry is like driving a large car for me. Driving a bus is wierd however because you're about a meter in front of the steering wheels so you have to leave turning movements later than feels normal. Unless you're driving a half-cab or an Optare Solo :) Bin lorries and some other specialist vehicles share the 'cab well forward' position of a bus. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:22:23 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: NY wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? I did. So you already had (a) experience of driving road vehicles (b) experience of driving large road vehicles. 5 days to learn that the front wheels are further back and that you have to look out for passengers? Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop. GH |
Jobsworth driver
On 24/11/2019 09:26, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: On 24/11/2019 08:39, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. He's already said they'd both go if they lose. He wants a young, inexperienced front-woman to be the new leader, with him pulling the strings. He prefers to operate in the shadows. For example, this is what Kate Hoey says of him: The Shadow Chancellor, she says, “has become quite a nasty, devious figure behind the scenes”; McDonnell is the one pulling the strings now. “After a while, Jeremy realised that he was losing and he just seems to have given in.” He was always the one pulling the strings. He might not remain shadow chancellor, though I wouldn't bet on it. He can always reluctantly agree to remain in post just to oversea the leadership changes and then allow the new leader to keep him on. Could be, but I think he might prefer not to have a formal shadow cabinet role. It has financial advantages and better access to policy documents. If the polls are even half-right, Labour is set for another miserably long stint in opposition, and may only have around 200 seats in the Commons, so being in the Shadow Cabinet won't count for much. It could be that the long-forecast split between the centre-left moderates and Momentum finally happens after the meltdown. McDonnell might be more interested in fighting that war with the hated Blairites than with coming up with economic policies that no-one cares about. True but he would want to do that from a position of at least notional power in the party. Corbyn is 70, and looks much older. He looks like he belongs in a retirement home, not No 10. Mcdonnell is 68, and probably won't be fighting the next election. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/election-2019-a-guide-to-what-the-polls-mean-and-what-they-dont Depends when it is, if there is a hung parliament the next election might not be that far away. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Jobsworth driver
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 24/11/2019 09:26, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 24/11/2019 08:39, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 23/11/2019 22:41, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall wrote: On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike? The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-led†, so by demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for Tory ministers. † Quote: The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31 elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times. … That's a quote from what? I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,” said nobody, ever. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15 [In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%, were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to shrink.] Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable. Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else. I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election. Why McDonnell? He is going to be the one who removes Corbyn from the leadership, regardless of which way the election goes. He's already said they'd both go if they lose. He wants a young, inexperienced front-woman to be the new leader, with him pulling the strings. He prefers to operate in the shadows. For example, this is what Kate Hoey says of him: The Shadow Chancellor, she says, “has become quite a nasty, devious figure behind the scenes”; McDonnell is the one pulling the strings now. “After a while, Jeremy realised that he was losing and he just seems to have given in.” He was always the one pulling the strings. He might not remain shadow chancellor, though I wouldn't bet on it. He can always reluctantly agree to remain in post just to oversea the leadership changes and then allow the new leader to keep him on. Could be, but I think he might prefer not to have a formal shadow cabinet role. It has financial advantages and better access to policy documents. If the polls are even half-right, Labour is set for another miserably long stint in opposition, and may only have around 200 seats in the Commons, so being in the Shadow Cabinet won't count for much. It could be that the long-forecast split between the centre-left moderates and Momentum finally happens after the meltdown. McDonnell might be more interested in fighting that war with the hated Blairites than with coming up with economic policies that no-one cares about. True but he would want to do that from a position of at least notional power in the party. Corbyn is 70, and looks much older. He looks like he belongs in a retirement home, not No 10. Mcdonnell is 68, and probably won't be fighting the next election. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/election-2019-a-guide-to-what-the-polls-mean-and-what-they-dont Depends when it is, if there is a hung parliament the next election might not be that far away. Sure, but the polls are strongly suggesting a clear Tory majority. The lead has stayed consistently at 10%+, unlike last time. Labour could get an even worse result than Foot achieved in 1983 (not surprising, as Corbyn is a much worse leader than Michael Foot). That would be bound to unleash the pending civil war in Labour. |
Jobsworth driver
On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:22:23 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: NY wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? I did. So you already had (a) experience of driving road vehicles (b) experience of driving large road vehicles. 5 days to learn that the front wheels are further back and that you have to look out for passengers? Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop. Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after the bus has left the previous stop. |
Jobsworth driver
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:55:10 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote: wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:13:31 -0000 "NY" wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? Articulated HGV so I had a bit of a prior advantage. Driving an ordinary car felt very weird afterwards - the steering wheel felt so high up, when I'd got used to the elbows-resting-on-my-knees position for steering the van. Driving a lorry is like driving a large car for me. Driving a bus is wierd however because you're about a meter in front of the steering wheels so you have to leave turning movements later than feels normal. Unless you're driving a half-cab or an Optare Solo :) Bin lorries and some other specialist vehicles share the 'cab well forward' position of a bus. Often built by the same company - Dennis. Another of their design oddities is cabs very close to the ground, usually on airport vehicles but also see on some refuse vehicles. |
Jobsworth driver
Charles Ellson wrote:
On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland wrote: Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop. Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after the bus has left the previous stop. Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:55:10 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: Driving a lorry is like driving a large car for me. Driving a bus is wierd however because you're about a meter in front of the steering wheels so you have to leave turning movements later than feels normal. Unless you're driving a half-cab or an Optare Solo :) Bin lorries and some other specialist vehicles share the 'cab well forward' position of a bus. Often built by the same company - Dennis. Another of their design oddities is cabs very close to the ground, usually on airport vehicles but also see on some refuse vehicles. Other than airport vehicles which have to fit under things, it's all for the same reason - quick and easy access of people (be they staff or passengers) into the vehicle. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
On 24/11/2019 21:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? I always wait for the next stop to be announced on the PA system, which means that, very often, I don't get the chance to ring the bell. -- John Ray |
Jobsworth driver
John Ray wrote:
On 24/11/2019 21:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? I always wait for the next stop to be announced on the PA system, which means that, very often, I don't get the chance to ring the bell. Could spend all day riding backwards and forwards on some routes waiting for a PA announcement! Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:29:09 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote: John Ray wrote: On 24/11/2019 21:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? In the past you would have got the rough end of the conductor's tongue if the bus wasn't a decent distance away from the previous stop as it was effectively treated as equivalent to pulling the alarm on a train. I always wait for the next stop to be announced on the PA system, which means that, very often, I don't get the chance to ring the bell. Could spend all day riding backwards and forwards on some routes waiting for a PA announcement! Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Jobsworth driver
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 21:00:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:55:10 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: Driving a lorry is like driving a large car for me. Driving a bus is wierd however because you're about a meter in front of the steering wheels so you have to leave turning movements later than feels normal. Unless you're driving a half-cab or an Optare Solo :) Bin lorries and some other specialist vehicles share the 'cab well forward' position of a bus. Often built by the same company - Dennis. Another of their design oddities is cabs very close to the ground, usually on airport vehicles but also see on some refuse vehicles. Other than airport vehicles which have to fit under things, it's all for the same reason - quick and easy access of people (be they staff or passengers) into the vehicle. Many airport vehicles tend to have equipment/structures which overhang the cab. The great majority of refuse vehicles have conventional height cabs including ones built by Dennis. AFAIR entry/egress is not necessarily easier as the design causes the wheel arch to intrude into the rear of the cab doorway and thus reduces the available width at the bottom in what in photographs seems to be the shorter of two cab lengths. Photographs also show that the rear door pillar is often forward of the rear of the driver's seat thus preventing exiting by simply turning through 90deg and stepping out. |
Jobsworth driver
On 24/11/2019 23:11, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 22:29:09 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: John Ray wrote: On 24/11/2019 21:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? In the past you would have got the rough end of the conductor's tongue if the bus wasn't a decent distance away from the previous stop as it was effectively treated as equivalent to pulling the alarm on a train. In plenty of places outside London, you got shouted at by the conductor if you dared to touch the bell - that was his / her job. It was a bit of a shock when I started to work in London and found out that I was expected to ring the bell myself. |
Jobsworth driver
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote: On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland wrote: Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop. Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after the bus has left the previous stop. Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm somehow unaware? Although I haven’t used one for some years now Southampton passengers seemed to be very reluctant to use the bell to the extent that visitors to the City sometimes remarked about it. The technique seemed to be that someone wishing to alight at the next stop would get up from their seat and just lurk a few feet behind the driver who took that as the signal they wished to get off . I rang the bell once and the effect wasn’t that much different to that created by trying to start a conversation on the London Underground. Any other places where the use of the Bell was similarly disdained. GH |
Jobsworth driver
Bevan Price wrote:
On 24/11/2019 23:11, Charles Ellson wrote: In the past you would have got the rough end of the conductor's tongue if the bus wasn't a decent distance away from the previous stop as it was effectively treated as equivalent to pulling the alarm on a train. In plenty of places outside London, you got shouted at by the conductor if you dared to touch the bell - that was his / her job. It was a bit of a shock when I started to work in London and found out that I was expected to ring the bell myself. Back when all buses used to have conductors, where I come from in Barnsley, passengers were never supposed to ring the bell themselves. You were expected to notify the conductor. If they were upstairs, you had to make your way to the open platform and shout up the stairs to them. However, when I was at college in Salford it was expected that passengers would ring the bell themselves. Forgetting which rule was in force could be problematic, though I suppose missing your stop was generally worse than being told off. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK @ChrisJDixon1 Plant amazing Acers. |
Jobsworth driver
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:58:07 +0000
wrote: On 24/11/2019 10:50, wrote: The test for a commercial vehicle is a LOT harder than a car. You don't get away with many mistakes and the test enviroment is a lot more varied. Kev and Trace might scrape through driving their corsa a bit erratically on a car test but they'd be failed in minutes on an HGV or bus test. My cousin did his HGV test using all that was available... A tank transported loaded with a tank. Apparently he mounted the kerb several times and bent a few bollards but still passed. I'm guessing that was a while back, he wouldn't get away with that today. |
Jobsworth driver
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:55:09 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:22:23 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: NY wrote: "Charles Ellson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:34:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3 days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops. What sort of vehicles had you driven before then? Were you already used to driving anything larger than a standard Ford Cortina size of car? But that is nowhere near as extreme as driving a bus which is wider still and a lot longer. If you only had prior experience of driving a car, then I'm impressed that you passed a bus test on day 5. Neil also has an HGV licence — maybe he got that before driving the bus? I did. So you already had (a) experience of driving road vehicles (b) experience of driving large road vehicles. 5 days to learn that the front wheels are further back and that you have to look out for passengers? Admittedly once you can drive a lorry there isn't much extra to driving a bus apart from stopping points and being smoother with the throttle and brake. Turns out people don't like being flung about like a container full of carrots. Pity someone doesn't tell TfLs bus drivers. |
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