Jobsworth driver
 

I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 14:36:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

In the old days, did some guards on London Underground not perfect a
technique where if a passenger tried to block the doors with a
briefcase it was possible to open and shut the doors so as to leave
the briefcase on the train and the passenger on the platform?

Jobsworth driver
 

On 21/11/2019 16:31, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 14:36:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

In the old days, did some guards on London Underground not perfect a
technique where if a passenger tried to block the doors with a
briefcase it was possible to open and shut the doors so as to leave
the briefcase on the train and the passenger on the platform?


There's a fundamental difference between waiting for passengers on a
tube line that is close to theoretical maximum headway and waiting for
passengers on the half-hourly train to Bayford.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Dave Graney & The Coral Snakes - 1992 - The Lure Of The Tropics

Jobsworth driver
 

"Basil Jet" wrote in message
...
There's a fundamental difference between waiting for passengers on a tube
line that is close to theoretical maximum headway and waiting for
passengers on the half-hourly train to Bayford.

I was once waiting on the platform for a train, along with a lot of other
people - probably a bit more than normal. The train was a couple of minutes
late. It stopped, opened its doors, let a few people on and then closed them
after about 10 seconds and set off. There was plenty of space inside the
train, so it looks as if the driver/guard thought "I'm late so I'm only
going to make a token gesture of stopping but not long enough for everyone
to get on". Passengers weren't running to catch the train: they were already
on the platform and queuing at each train door when the doors were
unceremoniously closed.

What is the normal advice when a train is running late and there are a lot
of passengers to get on but also a lot of space on the train? Is it normal
for doors to be closed after a token time, even though there are more
passengers still waiting to get on and space to accommodate them?

The next train (half an hour later) was very full, but the train waited for
long enough to get as many people on as possible, only closing the doors
when there was no more standing room. Some people were delayed by an hour:
they didn't get on the first train because it set off after only a few
seconds, and they didn't get on the second train because there wasn't enough
space.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:
I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

I believe that the drivers on the Thameslink route are specifically instructed by the management to do this.

A year or two back I made a formal complaint about a driver at Luton Airport Parkway deliberately closing the doors when lots of people were still boarding - and this was when there had been a platform alteration notified to passengers just a minute before the train arrival. I had fortunately been standing right by the steps to the overbridge and was capable of running up one flight and down the other, but anyone not being in the right place or not athletic enough (which was most of them) had no chance of changing platform. It must have been very obvious to the driver that he had been signalled into another platform at the last minute but he took no account of this and I expect he delighted in pulling away with only a fraction of the normal load. To my surprise and dismay the management backed him up - they said that avoiding even a few seconds of delay was more important than allowing passengers affected by a platform change to react to it.


--
Clive Page

Jobsworth driver
 

On 21/11/2019 21:14, Clive Page wrote:
To my surprise
and dismay the management backed him up - they said that avoiding even a
few seconds of delay was more important than allowing passengers
affected by a platform change to react to it.


The cynic in me would suggest that the penalty for running late is more
than the loss due to passengers complaining.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 21/11/2019 21:14, Clive Page wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:
I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this
afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch
our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on,
but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the
booked leaving
Â*Â*Â* time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like
him seem
to be rarer these days.

I believe that the drivers on the Thameslink route are specifically
instructed by the management to do this.

A year or two back I made a formal complaint about a driver at Luton
Airport Parkway deliberately closing the doors when lots of people were
still boarding - and this was when there had been a platform alteration
notified to passengers just a minute before the train arrival.Â* I had
fortunately been standing right by the steps to the overbridge and was
capable of running up one flight and down the other, but anyone not
being in the right place or not athletic enough (which was most of them)
had no chance of changing platform.Â* It must have been very obvious to
the driver that he had been signalled into another platform at the last
minute but he took no account of this and I expect he delighted in
pulling away with only a fraction of the normal load.Â* To my surprise
and dismay the management backed him up - they said that avoiding even a
few seconds of delay was more important than allowing passengers
affected by a platform change to react to it.


That's interesting. Perhaps station stops where the passengers are not
able to board in such circumstances should be classified as a cancelled
stop?

This is also going to become more common as NR introduce more automatic
route setting.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 14:36:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.
Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.


Many Nottingham NET tram drivers have the same bad habit, maybe they
are wannabee train drivers.


--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

Jobsworth driver
 

On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 12:36:56 GMT
lid (AnthonyL) wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 14:36:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I was sitting in a Great Northern train at Finsbury Park this afternoon when
a Thameslink train pulled in and a couple of women ran out to catch our train.

Now a normal person in the cab would have waited for them to get on, but no,
not the one in our train - he shut the doors in their faces.

So either:
A) He wasn't monitoring the platforms when he shut the doors or
B) He's a complete jobsworth tit and waiting 5 seconds beyond the booked
leaving
time was Not On.

Either way it was a pretty obnoxious thing to do. Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.


Many Nottingham NET tram drivers have the same bad habit, maybe they
are wannabee train drivers.

Happens on the tube occasionally too. Last time it happened to me I just
shoved the door back open until myself and a couple of other people had got on.
Whether it would work with the doors on a mainline train I don't know.

Jobsworth driver
 

wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon


That's guards, not drivers.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 14:01:16 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.

A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return guards to
all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 14:19, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:01:16 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike
for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.

A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return guards to
all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs travel
by train into London.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 15:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strikeÂ* for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
Â*A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards toÂ* all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

Stop trying to be rational, the comrades don't like it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think
we know the answer to that.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.

Thats the kind of leadership we need in this country, not the emasculated
idiots and whining women we seem to end up with now.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 15:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strikeÂ* for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
Â*A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards toÂ* all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

I doubt that nationalisation would make much difference to the railways
- we will still have our "wonderful" DfT to organise everything
"perfectly" (a.k.a. make a "bo-locks")

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think
we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

Yes, but with a bigger impact (national rather than regional) thus more
likely to get the desired result?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over
half of which is done on trains with other crews (training with
instructors, route learning with regular crews). Sack *everyone* at once
and you're going to find it very difficult to run any trains at all for at
least a year, and probably at least three years before you can run anything
like a full service.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think
we know the answer to that.



SWR can't do DOO. They say they're planning to run 50% of services,
presumably using management/office staff as guards.

As for crossing or not crossing picket lines, I believe it's technically
secondary industrial action and therefore technically illegal, but also
AIUI most TOCs involved in similar disputes have said they won't take
action (beyond loss of a day's pay) against those of other grades who don't
cross picket lines.

Incidentally AIUI the RMT will be paying the striking guards to compensate
for loss of income; that won't of course apply to other grades.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 20:46:16 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

Yes, but with a bigger impact (national rather than regional) thus more
likely to get the desired result?

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 20:46, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 15:37:21 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:25:25 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on
strike for
a month soon

That's guards, not drivers.
A wonderful advert for Labour's manifesto commitment to return
guards to all trains. Whose side are these strikers on, exactly?

All part of Cash's self-appointed class war, after all only toffs
travel by train into London.

If we return to the workers' paradise that was BR in the 70's, why would
drivers, and signalmen be striking because the nationalised BR wouldn't
give them the pay rise they demanded?

When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and
they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over
half of which is done on trains with other crews (training with
instructors, route learning with regular crews). Sack *everyone* at once
and you're going to find it very difficult to run any trains at all for at
least a year, and probably at least three years before you can run anything
like a full service.


More or less what actually happened with the Air Traffic Controllers in
the States, flights were reduced by about 50% for several months and it
was 10 years before the system finally recovered, ironically after
having to introduce many of the reforms the Controllers were striking
for in the first place.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody, ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]

Jobsworth driver
 

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody, ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?

The Times article I cited.



I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody, ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 21:58:07 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?

The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

In the General Election, voters won't be looking over their shoulder at
the past, but hoping for a sustained brighter future.

One of the aspects of this campaign which I think might be different
from previous ones, however, is the way manifesto promises are not just
looked at from the point of view of being deliverable, but whether or
not they are deliverable within 5yrs.
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:07 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?

The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

In the General Election, voters won't be looking over their shoulder at
the past, but hoping for a sustained brighter future.

Was that not always so?


One of the aspects of this campaign which I think might be different
from previous ones, however, is the way manifesto promises are not just
looked at from the point of view of being deliverable, but whether or
not they are deliverable within 5yrs.

I don't see why this election is any different to previous elections in
that regard.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only
700.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 20:46:17 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
When the air traffic controllers in the USA pushed their luck once too often
and went out on strike for the umpteenth time in the 80s, Reagan fired the
lot
of then AND banned them for working for the federal government for a number
of
years yet planes kept flying. We should do the same with train staff - its
not exactly a hard job physically or mentally no matter what they pretend and

they could be replaced pretty quickly. Certainly quicker than air traffic
controllers.


Several months to train a guard and 12-18 months to train a driver; over

It took me 4 days to learn to drive a bus - test on the 5th. And that involves
having to actually steer the vehicle through narrow streets and around parked
vehicles, not something train drivers have to worry about. So I reckon 2 or 3
days to learn to push a lever backwards and forwards and get a feel for
braking under different loads (no different to an HGV) and a few more weeks for
for learning signals, basic trouble shooting and some routes. A month tops.
The other 17 months being required is no doubt down to antiquated union rules
that haven't changed since the victorian era.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 09:28:26 on Sat, 23 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:07 on Fri, 22 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?

The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc, the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

In the General Election, voters won't be looking over their shoulder at
the past, but hoping for a sustained brighter future.

Was that not always so?

Who disputed that?

One of the aspects of this campaign which I think might be different
from previous ones, however, is the way manifesto promises are not just
looked at from the point of view of being deliverable, but whether or
not they are deliverable within 5yrs.

I don't see why this election is any different to previous elections in
that regard.

Partly because there are many really long term projects being promised,
some of which quite naturally won't be showing much progress at all
after 5yrs. But also because of the way social media can stir up such
questions in the minds of the electorate.
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?

So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?

Jobsworth driver
 

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for
a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC only
700.


Class 707s, like all other stock introduced recently, has DOO cameras and
screens in the cab but as SWR don't use them they're probably not tested,
assessed and properly commissioned, and the drivers won't be DOO trained
anyway.

SWR’s older stock, 455-458, will have guard's door control equipment at
various locations including cabs, or the corridor behind the cab, and on
some stock at intermediate doors too. Drivers won't be trained on dispatch
etc, and the risk assessment of every platform and the high-risk areas of
each platform won't have been done with dispatch from the front cab in
mind. SWR's platforms presumably don't have the platform equipment required
for DOO with older stock like this, so if the safe dispatch procedure for a
certain platform involves dispatch from the middle of the train, you want
the driver to walk back to the middle, shut the doors and then walk back to
the front of the train? Hmmm...


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?

So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.

[1] 442s were retrofitted with non-compliant DOO equipment for Southern, I
don't know whether it's been removed during the SWR refurb but I imagine
so.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 16:59:14 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of
tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.


Class 707s, like all other stock introduced recently, has DOO cameras and
screens in the cab but as SWR don't use them they're probably not tested,
assessed and properly commissioned, and the drivers won't be DOO trained
anyway.

So in all that intensive 12-18 months of training for this highly skilled lever
pushing job, they don't get shown how to open and close the doors? Pull the
other one.

certain platform involves dispatch from the middle of the train, you want
the driver to walk back to the middle, shut the doors and then walk back to
the front of the train? Hmmm...

Better than no service at all. But then we both know those unionised clowns
wouldn't cross the picket line anyway so the point is moot.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:05:27 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 12:56:34 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 23/11/2019 12:29, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 17:39:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 16:52, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:18:51 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/11/2019 12:49, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:47:05 +0000
MikeS wrote:
On 21/11/2019 14:36, wrote:

Luckily ****s like him seem
to be rarer these days.

Apparently you don't use Waterloo very often.

Not for years. But given the SWR drivers are planning to go on strike
for

a month soon I can't say it surprises me to find out they're a bunch of

tits
as well.


Do keep up, it's the guards that are striking.

Will any of the drivers cross the picket line and run the trains OPO? I
think

we know the answer to that.


They can't operate the trains OPO because the equipment to do so is not
fitted to the trains or the stations.

Really? So where do the guards close the doors from? Last time I looked it
was
the drivers cab at the other end or in the middle and I find it hard to
believe
the new class 707s don't have it installed by default as they're just a DC
only
700.



What bit of "or the stations" are you having trouble with?

So you admit it is fitted to the trains then?



Full DOO equipment is fitted to one [1] of SWR's 7 types of stock.

So they run that 1 type of train. Better than no type of train in service.