https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dirty-air-is-killing-25-times-more-than-car-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5

On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dirty-air-is-killing-25-times-more-than-car-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 16:02:19 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-more-than-car
-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

It would be interesting to see what the quality of air in a city street and
inside your average hut/house anytime from the neolithic to the 1950s before
the clean air act. I suspect today we're breathing cleaner air than anyone has
for a few thousand years. And imagine a house before electricity or gas
heated by a wood or coal burning hearth and lit by candles.

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 16:02:19 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-more-than-car
-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

It would be interesting to see what the quality of air in a city street and
inside your average hut/house anytime from the neolithic to the 1950s before
the clean air act. I suspect today we're breathing cleaner air than anyone has
for a few thousand years. And imagine a house before electricity or gas
heated by a wood or coal burning hearth and lit by candles.

Particulates would have been much worse then, but what about NOx?

Lots more people seem to get asthma these days.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:09:06 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 16:02:19 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-more-than-car

-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

It would be interesting to see what the quality of air in a city street and
inside your average hut/house anytime from the neolithic to the 1950s before

the clean air act. I suspect today we're breathing cleaner air than anyone
has
for a few thousand years. And imagine a house before electricity or gas
heated by a wood or coal burning hearth and lit by candles.

Particulates would have been much worse then, but what about NOx?

Don't know. Are wood and coal fires hot enough to create it? I suspect coal
fires would have released a lot of SO2 though which arguably is worse.

Lots more people seem to get asthma these days.

Indeed, and I'm one of them though not badly. Wish I knew what caused it but
its not city pollution as I get it just as much in the middle of the
countryside.

On 30/01/2020 10:23, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:09:06 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 16:02:19 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-more-than-car

-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

It would be interesting to see what the quality of air in a city street and
inside your average hut/house anytime from the neolithic to the 1950s before

the clean air act. I suspect today we're breathing cleaner air than anyone
has
for a few thousand years. And imagine a house before electricity or gas
heated by a wood or coal burning hearth and lit by candles.

Particulates would have been much worse then, but what about NOx?

Don't know. Are wood and coal fires hot enough to create it? I suspect coal
fires would have released a lot of SO2 though which arguably is worse.

Lots more people seem to get asthma these days.

Indeed, and I'm one of them though not badly. Wish I knew what caused it but
its not city pollution as I get it just as much in the middle of the
countryside.


I'm not sure that it worth speculating about the past. The point you've
both missed is lifespan and lifestyle. In the days of candles, those
who made it through all of the childhood pestilences - therefore the
selected, tough ones - would die before they got to ages we would feel
cheated to die at.

The challenge is to try to set today's agenda. Politicians are so
ignorant and easily conned when it comes to science. Look at the
vacillation about diesel; the gross misunderstanding of the
environmental and health issues surrounding the burning of biomass; the
mixed messages and lack of leadership surrounding wood-burning -
particularly domestic wood-burning.

As for Boltar's asthma - you need to move to the coast - that's the only
place to go to depress it.

PA

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:09:06 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 16:02:19 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/01/2020 11:26, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-more-than-car

-crashes-x09pp52s3?shareToken=1d8301dddec30b9b2a47e85a2ecdb 7d5



Ironic that the article associates particulates with cars when,
nationally, the greater risk will probably be from wood-burning.

PA

It would be interesting to see what the quality of air in a city street and
inside your average hut/house anytime from the neolithic to the 1950s before

the clean air act. I suspect today we're breathing cleaner air than anyone
has
for a few thousand years. And imagine a house before electricity or gas
heated by a wood or coal burning hearth and lit by candles.

Particulates would have been much worse then, but what about NOx?

Don't know. Are wood and coal fires hot enough to create it?

I don't think so. Also, engines create the much more dangerous very small
particulates (PM2.5), whereas wood and coal fires produce the less
dangerous (because they don't penetrate the lungs) larger particulates.

I suspect coal
fires would have released a lot of SO2 though which arguably is worse.

Lots more people seem to get asthma these days.

Indeed, and I'm one of them though not badly. Wish I knew what caused it but
its not city pollution as I get it just as much in the middle of the
countryside.

I think city pollution helped cause it, but other sources can then trigger
it.

In message , at 10:23:21 on Thu, 30 Jan
2020, remarked:

Particulates would have been much worse then, but what about NOx?

Don't know. Are wood and coal fires hot enough to create it? I suspect coal
fires would have released a lot of SO2 though which arguably is worse.

Acid rain.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
12:08:07 on Thu, 30 Jan 2020, Peter Able remarked:

The challenge is to try to set today's agenda. Politicians are so
ignorant and easily conned when it comes to science. Look at the
vacillation about diesel; the gross misunderstanding of the
environmental and health issues surrounding the burning of biomass;

I've always said that growing stuff, then burning it again, is futile as
a way to reduce carbon emissions. What you need to do is grow stuff,
then capture it. For example using wood to build things with.

the mixed messages and lack of leadership surrounding wood-burning -
particularly domestic wood-burning.

What's your issue with domestic wood-burning. Pollution or CO2. I have a
wood-burner, but don't consume anything other than waste wood that I'd
otherwise take to the tip, and then they'd chip it and burn it... The
stove sees to consume any smoke that less sophisticated grates might
generate.

--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 12:08:07 +0000
Peter Able wrote:
On 30/01/2020 10:23, wrote:
Indeed, and I'm one of them though not badly. Wish I knew what caused it but
its not city pollution as I get it just as much in the middle of the
countryside.


I'm not sure that it worth speculating about the past. The point you've
both missed is lifespan and lifestyle. In the days of candles, those
who made it through all of the childhood pestilences - therefore the
selected, tough ones - would die before they got to ages we would feel
cheated to die at.

Not necessarily - it depended highly on class and therefor working conditions
and diet. If you were one of the peasents you'd probably check out in your 40s
but if you were a merchant or higher then plenty lived to ripe old ages.

As for Boltar's asthma - you need to move to the coast - that's the only
place to go to depress it.

Possibly, but like most people I have to live near where the work is. A 2
hour each way commute from the coast in some Southern or SWR cattle wagon
isn't my idea of a good work-life balance.