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| London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#1
February 27th 20, 10:25 PM
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Motion Sickness
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#2
February 28th 20, 12:32 AM
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Motion Sickness
On 27/02/2020 22:25, Recliner wrote:
wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? Maybe I have a sensitive stomach. I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion. I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. It was newer models, to which I was referring. I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance. That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs, maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity. How did I know that you would say something like that? |
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#4
February 28th 20, 10:12 AM
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Motion Sickness
On 28/02/2020 00:59, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On 27/02/2020 22:25, Recliner wrote: wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? Maybe I have a sensitive stomach. I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion. I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. It was newer models, to which I was referring. Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another (parallel to series, say). I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance. That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs, maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity. How did I know that you would say something like that? Yup. Anyone who's travelled on a modern train knows what the priorities are. The Alstom Metropolis, which operates in revenue service on several different networks, is allegedly notorious for creating motion sickness. |
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#5
February 28th 20, 10:25 AM
posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Motion Sickness
wrote:
On 28/02/2020 00:59, Recliner wrote: wrote: On 27/02/2020 22:25, Recliner wrote: wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? Maybe I have a sensitive stomach. I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion. I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. It was newer models, to which I was referring. Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another (parallel to series, say). I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance. That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs, maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity. How did I know that you would say something like that? Yup. Anyone who's travelled on a modern train knows what the priorities are. The Alstom Metropolis, which operates in revenue service on several different networks, is allegedly notorious for creating motion sickness. Is that train related to any hybrid buses? |
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#6
February 28th 20, 10:49 AM
posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Motion Sickness
On 28/02/2020 00:59, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On 27/02/2020 22:25, Recliner wrote: wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? Maybe I have a sensitive stomach. I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion. I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. It was newer models, to which I was referring. Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another (parallel to series, say). If there are /systematic/ differences between models I'd have expected them to come up in TfL's covert monitoring of the quality of drivers on the London bus network. IIRC TfL could also deploy accelerometers ad hoc if there were complaints about a driver/service. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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#7
February 28th 20, 11:33 AM
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Motion Sickness
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:25:30PM -0000, Recliner wrote:
wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda thunk it was a Solved Problem. -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence Safety tip: never strap firearms to a hamster |
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#8
February 28th 20, 11:45 AM
posted to uk.transport.london
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Motion Sickness
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000
David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:25:30PM -0000, Recliner wrote: wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda thunk it was a Solved Problem. Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake. |
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#9
February 28th 20, 12:34 PM
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Motion Sickness
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:45:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000 David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:25:30PM -0000, Recliner wrote: wrote: Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the newer ones, cause motion sickness? I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch. That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than anything intrinsic. I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda thunk it was a Solved Problem. Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake. Yes, but the same drivers also drove the previous non-lurching diesel buses. Some of the new hybrid buses seem to have more sensitive throttles. It may be because electric motors have more starting torque. For example, even quite humble city BEVs have very good acceleration from zero to about 20mph. |
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#10
February 28th 20, 01:44 PM
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Motion Sickness
In message , at 11:45:41 on Fri, 28 Feb
2020, remarked: a lot of london bus drivers seem to only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake. It's not restricted to London! -- Roland Perry |
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