"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot

The point is that the area already has a large amount of housing on it, and
it's got the reputation of not attracting the most desirable of neighbours.

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?

of course

But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead

And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to

wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now, albeit for a certain meaning of
"desirable". Living in an overpriced box 20 floors up looking at skyscrapers
is not my idea of it but it certainly works for some people.

Yes, although I wonder how many of those glassy apartments are occupied
seven days a week? Some are just investment properties, perhaps used by
their foreign owners for a couple of months a year (or maybe just left
empty, 'safety boxes in the sky'). Many others are owned by the richer
Canary Wharf workers (eg, dealers or senior executives) and used as
pied-Ã*-terres for maybe three or four nights a week. Their real family
homes are in leafier places, many miles away.

Thamesmead is far enough away that homes there might actually be lived in.

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.


not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\

You missed the point, so, yes you are.

wrote in message ...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now,

Canary Wharf, didn't have 40,000 people to find new homes for before
re-development

Most of the redeveloped land in the dock was disused commercial land

tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?

of course

But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead

And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to


FWIW, this is the plan:
https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not.
The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the
tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.

Hum,

seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first

of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door

You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties

It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\

You missed the point,

I missed something that you didn't say

so, yes you are.

that makes me uninformed, not an idiot

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not.
The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the
tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.

Hum,

seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first

of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door

The plan to build on more land in the area, as you would have seen if you
read the plan I posted.

For example, Southmere Village:
https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/growth-and-regeneration/south-thamesmead/southmere-village/



You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties

It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work

Agreed, they would need to raise the tone of the whole area. You can't sell
upmarket houses next to a rough council estate.


not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot

You missed the point,

I missed something that you didn't say

so, yes you are.

that makes me uninformed, not an idiot

Your choice of word, not mine.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:


This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/

I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.

Returning to your question, I really can't see any chance of this
happening. The Thamesmead plan references Abbey Wood, but not the DLR.
And if an existing line were to be extended across the Thames, I'd
have thought it would be the Goblin.

It's far more likely that Thamesmead with just get a better bus
service to Abbey Wood (smart electric buses, segregated bus lanes,
traffic light priority, etc). Not only is this vastly cheaper, but it
can serve a wider area, with stops around the estate, rather than just
having one station. The bus network can also be adapted as new
developments are occupied.

For either the DLR or the Goblin to be extended across the Thames
would almost certainly need a substantial contribution from the
property developer. But that is Peabody, which is creating affordable
homes, not someone like Berkeley Homes.

On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:13:50 +0100, Graham Harrison
wrote:

Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.

But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.

Beckton please!