Roland Perry wrote:
In message m, Roland
Perry writes

This is going to sound extremely dumb, I know. But when did a simple
Z1 tube fare increase to Two Pounds? Well, that's what the machine at
Paddington charged me to go to St Pancras.


Another question: From reading the literature closely it seems I can't
use Oyster pre-pay to travel from Central London to Ealing Broadway by
national rail. Although I can by travelcard (Oyster or paper), and both
ends have Oyster-operated gates.

Is this true, and if so, how is the casual user supposed to cope?

(There seems to be a whole page in the guide on how not to get charged
the wrong amount when transiting Wimbledon).

Oyster prepay currently only deals with singles, and you can't use an LU
single to travel from Central London to Ealing Bdy by National Rail.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Dave Arquati
writes
Oyster prepay currently only deals with singles, and you can't use an
LU single to travel from Central London to Ealing Bdy by National Rail.

Yes, this seems to be the obscure [to a tourist expecting to find an
integrated transport system] reason for this. But with travellers
expected to pass through an Oyster-operated gate to get to some of the
National Rail services on that line, and having to pass through an
Oyster-operated gate to exit Ealing Bdy station, they could be excused
for being *extremely* confused.

Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?
After all, they accept Oyster Travelcards, so what's the fundamental
difference?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
y.com...

Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?

Oyster post-dates most of the TOCs in the London area.

After all, they accept Oyster Travelcards, so what's the fundamental
difference?

Oyster Travelcards are the same price as paper travelcards just using a
different medium. Oyster single tickets are priced differently.

Dave.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:41:40 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?
After all, they accept Oyster Travelcards, so what's the fundamental
difference?

Travelcards are already valid on NR services (paper or otherwise).
LUL singles (generally) aren't, because the fares structures are not
harmonised, nor is revenue shared.

I agree it's daft, though. I also think it's daft that there isn't an
interavailable single in the TfL area anyway - i.e. one single ticket
for a journey which could involve bus, train, LUL and tram (perhaps
with an additional bus-only single if for political reasons we want to
keep bus fares down). Most Verbundtarif systems in Germany work like
this.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

In article , Annabel Smyth
writes
I keep mine in the purse my Euros live in; haven't been to Paris for
ages, but last time I went, my carnet tickets from several years earlier
were still valid!

I've just discovered the hard way that my 1998 Brussels Metro 10-trip
ticket has expired with 4 trips left. It was used in September 1998 and
October 2001 (3 times each). Looking carefully, I see "Utilisable trois
ans a dater de l'achat", meaning that the latter use was probably
dubious, though the validators took it without argument.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In message , Dave Liney
writes
Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?

Oyster post-dates most of the TOCs in the London area.

But most contracts have clauses allowing for changes to be imposed
later.

(In any event, does Oyster really post-date the change from Thames
Trains to GW Link?)

After all, they accept Oyster Travelcards, so what's the fundamental
difference?

Oyster Travelcards are the same price as paper travelcards just using a
different medium. Oyster single tickets are priced differently.

And that's the *tourist's* problem? Perhaps Ealing Broadway should have
signs on the gates saying that Oyster pre-pay isn't valid on National
Rail, only the Underground.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , Dave Liney
writes

Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?


Oyster post-dates most of the TOCs in the London area.


The main difference here is really that the Strategic Rail Authority
controls point-to-point fares on National Rail commuter services to
London, and Transport for London has no control at all.

Therefore if TfL want to apply their fares to SRA services, they have to
"pay the difference" - which can be very expensive, since currently a
through journey using National Rail and LU is priced at LU single + NR
single, and under TfL it would just be LU single for whatever zones.

This could all change if either TfL take control of London suburban
services under their plans submitted to the rail review - or possibly if
Network Rail / the Government take on SRA responsibilities and can
therefore set fares. However I doubt the latter would happen as the
Government probably wants to increase fares anyway to help offset the
debt they could inherit from Network Rail.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:41:40 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:


Yes, this seems to be the obscure [to a tourist expecting to find an
integrated transport system]

Why should they be expecting that? We haven't got an integrated
system, and, if they'd done any research before they came, they would
know that.

expected to pass through an Oyster-operated gate to get to some of the
National Rail services on that line, and having to pass through an
Oyster-operated gate to exit Ealing Bdy station, they could be excused
for being *extremely* confused.

Surely most tourists won't have an Oyster card anyway?


Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?

Why should they?

In message , k
writes

Yes, this seems to be the obscure [to a tourist expecting to find an
integrated transport system]

Why should they be expecting that?

Because there are maps everywhere (on the walls, in leaflets etc) that
show all the railways on. There is one set of barriers at the station
(Ealing Broadway) even though there are three railways lines. And those
barriers have the Oyster reader on them.

We haven't got an integrated system, and, if they'd done any research
before they came, they would know that.

All the physical evidence is otherwise.

expected to pass through an Oyster-operated gate to get to some of the
National Rail services on that line, and having to pass through an
Oyster-operated gate to exit Ealing Bdy station, they could be excused
for being *extremely* confused.

Surely most tourists won't have an Oyster card anyway?

This thread started because I was charged £2 for a single that was much
more than I was expecting (as a tourist). And the advice from the
newsgroup was "get an Oyster card then".

Why didn't someone make it a condition of national rails TOCs operating
within the Oyster area that they accept Oyster single tickets?

Why should they?

So that fares are the same from A-B [eg Ealing Broadway to Paddington]
irrespective of which trains you get.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:40:48 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:



And that's the *tourist's* problem? Perhaps Ealing Broadway should have
signs on the gates saying that Oyster pre-pay isn't valid on National
Rail, only the Underground.

You mean it doesn't? My NR station (and several others I've been to)
have posters up saying just that.