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Double Artic Trolleybus.
http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2
004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm Had a ride on it yesterday - it's enormous! -- ***** *****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam measure. Please address new mails or replies to edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at with an @***** ***** |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:11:49 +0000 (UTC), "Graham Harrison"
wrote: http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2 004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm There's a diesel version running around on the old 102 (now Metrobus something or other) in Hamburg, a former tram route now operated by diesel buses using much of the existing tram infrastructure. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:42:15 +0100, Alex
wrote: And how do you reverse them? You don't. On the ex-102, there are turning loops at Niendorf-Markt and Niendorf-Nord (though you could as well turn them by going around side streets), and the Rathausmarkt at the other end of the route is one way in, one way out with regular stops rather than the "nose-in" type. I presume they have a reverse gear for emergency use - but expect it is to be avoided... Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
In message , Alex
writes And how do you reverse them? With skill and a lot of care. -- Clive |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
In article , Graham Harrison wrote:
http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2 004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm Had a ride on it yesterday - it's enormous! I just got back from a holiday in Crimea, in Ukraine. There is a trolleybus route there between Simferopol and Yalta, something like 45 miles long! The trolleybuses used there are a bit more normal-sized, though: http://www.zen30634.zen.co.uk/DCP_0519.JPG.html Niklas -- "My first time renting a car in the UK, I was a little surprised at how long it took to get up to 100 on the motorway and was thinking disparaging remarks about this ****box Escort. And then I realized that in the UK they still use miles." -- Paul Tomblin |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
Niklas Karlsson writes:
I just got back from a holiday in Crimea, in Ukraine. There is a trolleybus route there between Simferopol and Yalta, something like 45 miles long! Did you ride it, or otherwise travel the same roads? I'd be interested to know the highest speed limit on the road and whether the trolleybuses actually reach that speed -- unless the overhead wire and the road surface are very good, I wouldn't think trolley poles would provide reliable contact for a road vehicle at much above city speeds. -- Mark Brader, Toronto Rocket, 1829: The first 30 mph train. TGV-A, 1989: The first 300 mph train. My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
In article , Mark Brader wrote:
Niklas Karlsson writes: I just got back from a holiday in Crimea, in Ukraine. There is a trolleybus route there between Simferopol and Yalta, something like 45 miles long! Did you ride it, or otherwise travel the same roads? I'd be interested to know the highest speed limit on the road and whether the trolleybuses actually reach that speed -- unless the overhead wire and the road surface are very good, I wouldn't think trolley poles would provide reliable contact for a road vehicle at much above city speeds. I think you're probably right. I rode it for a short distance (at least compared to the entire length). As I recall the general speed limit on the road was 80 kph, and there was a separate trolleybus speed limit of something like 50-60 kph. Oh, and the fare for the whole trip from Simferopol to Yalta, or vice versa, is about 30-35p, BTW. Of course, this trolleybus route runs through a pass in the Crimean mountain range, so the road'll be slowish in any case... Niklas -- "If you're going to bash someone with a beer bottle they at least deserve the respect of it being marginally drinkable beer." -- Lovia |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2 004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm Had a ride on it yesterday - it's enormous! Ah, but can it play a medley of accordion hits of the 30s as it goes around corners? -- Brian "You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing." |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:11:49 +0000 (UTC),
Graham Harrison wrote in : http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2 004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm Had a ride on it yesterday - it's enormous! Haven't explicitly noticed it yet. I'll keep it in mind when I travel into town. I usually just take the 9/18/28 from here into the airport. -- Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration, Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
I just had a thought. Would it be legal in the UK? I know there were
some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). -- ***** *****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam measure. Please address new mails or replies to edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at with an @***** ***** |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
"Graham Harrison" wrote
the following in: I just had a thought. Would it be legal in the UK? I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That's alright, TfL still don't. -- message by Robin May. Inimitable, but would you want to anyway? "GIVE IN! IT'S TIME TO GO!" - The NHS offers a high standard of care. http://robinmay.fotopic.net Spelling lesson: then and than are different words. |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North) and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original artics (or their replacements). I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's - I remember them appearing at Birmingham's Bull Ring Bus Station from Cannock in the days when I was a schoolkid moonlighting in the MRN travel centre there! -- Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK) From address *will* bounce |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
"Mark Brader" wrote in message
... Did you ride it, or otherwise travel the same roads? I'd be interested to know the highest speed limit on the road and whether the trolleybuses actually reach that speed -- unless the overhead wire and the road surface are very good, I wouldn't think trolley poles would provide reliable contact for a road vehicle at much above city speeds. Mark, the erstwhile Mexborough and Swinton trolleybus service, between Rotherham and Conisborough, passed through a long stretch of open country with a slight downhill slope. On the farewell tour in 1961, pictures at http://www.btinternet.com/~terry.harper/ms1961.htm , our single-decker got up to a good speed, probably between 45 and 50 mph (80 kph for you colonials:-). -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
The initial difficulty with Artics in this country was that under then
current legislation, passengers could not be carried in a trailer on public highways. Some fairly rudimentary artics, using a goods vehicle tractor unit with a very box-like semi-trailer, had seen limited airport use previously. Oxford operated the ex-Sheffield MAN's for some time. Drivers were given a fairly comprehensive training programme, but the Ministry decreed that any driver with an "all types" licence could drive them. Reversing technique was relatively straightforward, but took some getting used to. Rear axle steered in mirror formation to the front axle. When reversing, you simply "drove" the other end. Not as simple as it sounds. I cannot recal the fare collection arrangements, but as they settled on the 501 Blackbird Leys - Rail Station, it must have been near normal. Robin Clare "Ross" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in , seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North) and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original artics (or their replacements). I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's - I remember them appearing at Birmingham's Bull Ring Bus Station from Cannock in the days when I was a schoolkid moonlighting in the MRN travel centre there! -- Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK) From address *will* bounce |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
I always wondered what the reason was. Thanks.
So, is a double artic legal in the UK? -- ***** *****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam measure. Please address new mails or replies to edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at with an @***** ***** |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
Ross wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in , seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North) and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original artics (or their replacements). I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's Ross, 2001-04 (DAK301-04V) deliveries started 09/1979. MAN built the front half and Goppel (Augsburg) built the trailers. Used on the 500 Clipper service (which was originally a free service). Withdrawn 09/1981. Returned to MAN (Swindon) Loan to City of Oxford 02/82 to 10/82 Loan to Midland Red (Express) 10/82 at NEC Motor Show car parks Loan to Midland Red West 01/83 to 12/83 Sold to Midland Red North in 01/84 2001 lent to Northern General 12/86 to 01/87 2004 lent to SYPTE 03/84 to 04/84 All withdrawn 02/87 Sold to Marlin Coast Bus Lines (The Beach Bus), Cairns, Queensland 03/87 2002 not operated and sold on to Grafton-Yamba Bus Service, Northern New South Wales 09/89. So now you know what happened to them :) Regards Dave Farrier |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
"David Farrier" wrote in message ... Ross wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in , seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). Big Snip There are pictures of 2001/05/06/10 on http://yorkshirebuses.photos.gb.com/ Keith. |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
Alex wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:02:59 GMT, (Neil Williams) wrote: On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:11:49 +0000 (UTC), "Graham Harrison" wrote: http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla.../Ecp20january2 004.htm http://www.tpg.ch/Internet+TPG/Angla...cules/List+of+ Vehicles.htm There's a diesel version running around on the old 102 (now Metrobus something or other) in Hamburg, a former tram route now operated by diesel buses using much of the existing tram infrastructure. Neil And how do you reverse them? Not only that , whats to stop the powered rear section jackknifing the bit in the middle which given it only has a single wheel is probably quite happy to turn on its axis if given enough of a shove. B2003 |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
Alex wrote the following in:
On 12 Jun 2004 13:34:09 GMT, Robin May wrote: "Graham Harrison" wrote the following in: I just had a thought. Would it be legal in the UK? I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That's alright, TfL still don't. Eh? Pay before you board, or "revenue free boarding" as it is referred to by some. -- message by Robin May-Silk and my close friend, Robert Kilroy-Kotton "GIVE IN! IT'S TIME TO GO!" - The NHS offers a high standard of care. http://robinmay.fotopic.net Spelling lesson: then and than are different words. |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On 12 Jun 2004 13:34:09 GMT, Robin May
wrote: "Graham Harrison" wrote the following in: I just had a thought. Would it be legal in the UK? I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That's alright, TfL still don't. Eh? Alex |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
In message , Ross
writes On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in , seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] I know there were some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about couldn't charge fares on them). That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North) and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original artics (or their replacements). I'm pretty sure that Graham was right, though and that when they were introduced in Sheffield SYPTE were indeed unable to charge fares. (I think that they ran on something called the "City Clipper" service in Sheffield, a bit akin to WMPTE's "Centrebus".) I also have a vague recollection of something similar happening in Nottingham? I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's - I remember them appearing at Birmingham's Bull Ring Bus Station from Cannock in the days when I was a schoolkid moonlighting in the MRN travel centre there! Ah, the old 853/854, ex Harper Brothers routes? :-) Didn't some of those vehicles end up in Sydney? Incidentally, on the earlier subject of trolleybuses reaching high speeds, I travelled once on a trolleybus in the Czech Republic (in Chomulotov, on the route to "Jerkov", would you believe?!) which ran on a *motorway* for part of its length. Trying to imagine trolleybuses taking to the Aston Expressway in Birmingham or the M32 in Bristol is interesting! -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Clive wrote:
In message , Alex writes And how do you reverse them? With skill and a lot of care. Alternatively, with a lot of casualties. tom -- There's no future. |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Clive wrote: In message , Alex writes And how do you reverse them? With skill and a lot of care. Alternatively, with a lot of casualties. Doesn't it just fold up into itself from where it can swivel on the spot? -- Brian "You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing." |
Double Artic Trolleybus.
In article ,
Boltar wrote: Alex wrote in message ... And how do you reverse them? Not only that , whats to stop the powered rear section jackknifing the bit in the middle which given it only has a single wheel is probably quite happy to turn on its axis if given enough of a shove. They could link the front and rear pivots with a sort of swing link arrangement to ensure they both turned in sync by half of the total amount, that would probably make it a lot more controllable. A similar sort of simple arrangement to what Airfix used to make the wings swing in parallel on their kit of an F111. Ok, I'll get my rather venerable anorak ... Nick -- "My objective at this stage was to work about 3 days per week" -- Richard Parker in http://web.ukonline.co.uk/richard/cv78.html |
Nottingham's free buses WAS: Double Artic Trolleybus.
Ian Jelf wrote in message ...
snip I'm pretty sure that Graham was right, though and that when they were introduced in Sheffield SYPTE were indeed unable to charge fares. (I think that they ran on something called the "City Clipper" service in Sheffield, a bit akin to WMPTE's "Centrebus".) I also have a vague recollection of something similar happening in Nottingham? Nottingham's free service was a political & environmental, not legal decision,taken in the early 1970s. The 77/88 central circulars were run for free to discourage car use in the city centre, the early Leyland Nationals used were often loaded to the gunwales and used to roll madly on tight corners. The 88 had NCT livery with and orange roof and the 77 ditto with a yellow roof;I suppose they were an ancestor of NCts current route branding. The free services were such a success that NCT got some seconhand Nationals from Plymouth to add to the fleet and once I recall a 1963 Fleetline-NCME on the 88 route, a much more dignified way to travel! The famous Lilac Leopards were also part of a park & ride strategy, but there was a change of control in the parliament house, and fares were charged on the 77/88 and the Lilac Leopards sold off. Stephen |
Nottingham's free buses WAS: Double Artic Trolleybus.
In message , Stephen
Allcroft writes Nottingham's free service was a political & environmental, not legal decision,taken in the early 1970s. The 77/88 central circulars were run for free to discourage car use in the city centre, Thanks for the information, Stephen. The famous Lilac Leopards were also part of a park & ride strategy, Now those I do remember. They had bus (rather than coach) seating, looking most odd. but there was a change of control in the parliament house, and fares were charged on the 77/88 and the Lilac Leopards sold off. I remember quite a heated debate on that on "ATV Today" (now *that* dates me if nothing else!). Thanks again for "filling us (me) in". -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Nottingham's free buses WAS: Double Artic Trolleybus.
Ian Jelf wrote in message ...
In message , Stephen Allcroft writes Nottingham's free service was a political & environmental, not legal decision,taken in the early 1970s. The 77/88 central circulars were run for free to discourage car use in the city centre, Thanks for the information, Stephen. The famous Lilac Leopards were also part of a park & ride strategy, Now those I do remember. They had bus (rather than coach) seating, looking most odd. Not all of them, the first batch, IIRC were coach seated. I recall a number of those (maybe 3) working on hire to Derby Corporation after the January 1976 Blue Bus Fire. Most of the bus seated Leopards, if not all of them, were in standard NCT green and cream, rather than all over lilac with purple stripes. I gather that the bus seated ones (Duple called them Dominant E) were bought because of delivery delays with double decks. but there was a change of control in the parliament house, and fares were charged on the 77/88 and the Lilac Leopards sold off. I remember quite a heated debate on that on "ATV Today" (now *that* dates me if nothing else!). I'm nearly as dated. I remember that, and Tom Coyne on Midlands Today, and the start of Tiswas,just on ATV to start with... But I did live in Derby from 1974-6 (left just before my 10th birthday). Thanks again for "filling us (me) in". nae bother stephen |
Nottingham's free buses WAS: Double Artic Trolleybus.
gather that the bus seated ones (Duple called them Dominant E) were
bought because of delivery delays with double decks. Yes these had a short holiday in Edinburgh with Lothian. Kevin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 07/06/2004 |
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