John Rowland ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

The 253 used to always come in bunches of seven. I was told this by
someone, and I experienced it myself. Given that the old 253 was
effectively two overlapping routes, this isn't too surprising,
although 6 might be more expected.

Only because it's difficult for groups of three-and-a-half buses to arrive
simultaneously.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 at 10:09:27, Adrian
wrote:

Terry Harper ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

As may be, but I'm no spring chicken, and I well remember using the
"indeterminate they" when I was at school. Normally along the lines of
"Is anybody sitting there?" "Yes, they are!" (meaning the seat was
reserved). In vain did the school staff point out that "She is" would
be more correct than "they are"......

Presumably, the gender of the person sitting there would be known, though?
Can I also guess that it was a girl's school?

Very true. But I imagine that if it hadn't been, and one wanted to know
whether a seat was taken, the reply would still have been the same!

[Snip]

How scary is this, when your attribution lines are being grammar-pedanted,
and you're *defending* them....?

So why not keep them simple?
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 6 June 2004

Annabel Smyth ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 at 10:09:27, Adrian
wrote:

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...

How scary is this, when your attribution lines are being
grammar-pedanted, and you're *defending* them....?

So why not keep them simple?

And how boring a place would the world be without a little gurgle every now
and then? If everybody just placidly "wrote"....?

In message , Mark Brader
writes
On another matter, there are quite a number of RMs doing sight-
seeing tours at Niagara Falls ON. Look in good condition ...
But they didn't have their numbers on: anyone know which they are?
Slight change of subject. As an ex-bus driver in Bristol where our
double deckers had crash boxes, I remember a trip to London and on
travelling on an RM got the impression they had pre-selector boxes.
Can any confirm or deny this? Does anyone out there know how they
worked or have a link to which I could go to, to find out? Thanks for
any sensible answers.
--
Clive

"Clive" wrote in message
...

Slight change of subject. As an ex-bus driver in Bristol where our
double deckers had crash boxes, I remember a trip to London and on
travelling on an RM got the impression they had pre-selector boxes.
Can any confirm or deny this? Does anyone out there know how they
worked or have a link to which I could go to, to find out? Thanks for
any sensible answers.

Traditionally, LT used Wilson preselector gearboxes for their STL and RT
buses.

http://www.routemaster.org.uk/ gives a link to a history
http://www.routemaster50.org.uk/rtmaster/history.shtml of the RM, which used
a semi-automatic gearbox initially, I believe, but like the engines, these
have been replaced with more modern units over the years.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

On 17 Jun 2004 14:00:10 GMT, Adrian
wrote:

Peter Beale ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Former British Reg No :- BSL161, LSJ872, JSJ767

Those are all "age-related" numbers issued fairly recently

SL and SJ would have been Scottish registrations under the old system
- can't lay my hands on my 1960s Readers' Digest Book of the Road
which listed them. Could they have been some sold to Stagecoach in
Scotland, with LT hanging on to the *LT *** numbers?

They were, but they were number series that never got issued before the
annual suffix was introduced - so they've been kept (with others) for issue
to newly imported pre-63 vehicles or to pre-63 vehicles that have somehow
lost their original numbers.

http://fleetdata.co.uk/agerelated.html

I seem to remember (but can't find my sources) that this type of new
number issued to an old vehicle is specifically non-transferable, so
it can't be sold on as a 'cherished number'. Also the policy has
changed over the years. At one time any vehicle from before 1964
needing a new number would have been issued with an A suffix, and a
few Routemasters acquired such numbers during the 1980s. There's at
least one A-suffix Routemaster still in service on the 19.

Martin

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:34:29 +0000 (UTC), "Terry Harper"
wrote:

"Clive" wrote in message
...

Slight change of subject. As an ex-bus driver in Bristol where our
double deckers had crash boxes, I remember a trip to London and on
travelling on an RM got the impression they had pre-selector boxes.
Can any confirm or deny this? Does anyone out there know how they
worked or have a link to which I could go to, to find out? Thanks for
any sensible answers.

Traditionally, LT used Wilson preselector gearboxes for their STL and RT
buses.

http://www.routemaster.org.uk/ gives a link to a history
http://www.routemaster50.org.uk/rtmaster/history.shtml of the RM, which used
a semi-automatic gearbox initially, I believe, but like the engines, these
have been replaced with more modern units over the years.

From personal observation as a passenger - mostly on the 19 - a
majority of Routemasters still have the original type of gearbox.
This is an automatic, but left to its own devices seems set for rather
relaxed driving, and in particular always starts in second gear.
First gear (out of four) is only available if selected manually. In
practice most drivers seem to use these in semi-automatic mode. The
gear selector in these works in an 'H' gate, much like a manual
gearbox.

My understanding is that the Routemasters used in the former country
area were originally semi-automatic (so the driver had to change gear,
but there was no clutch pedal), and that this was mechanically the
same gearbox as used in the other buses, but without the automatic
control fitted. But this could be completely wrong...

The more recently refurbished/re-engined Routemasters do have new
automatic transmissions, and there are at least two types: one which
has a box with push-buttons and some sort of LED indicator mounted
under the steering wheel, and one which has a floor mounted selector.

Preselector gearboxes were a feature of earlier London buses, like the
RTs, and as a child sitting behind the driver of RTs and RFs I was
fascinated by their working. The principle was simple: the driver
could move the gear lever between different gears at will, and would
then press a pedal - where you'd expect to find a clutch pedal - which
would put the bus into whichever gear he'd selected.

So he'd put the gear lever into first while the bus was stationary,
then press the pedal when he was ready to move. As he moved off, he'd
put the gear lever into second, then use the pedal to change up when
he was ready. Then he'd move the gear lever into third, and then
change up with the pedal, and so on.

I've occasionally wondered, in retrospect, and maybe somebody reading
this knows: did reverse work the same way on preselective gearboxes?
The thought of travelling forward, forgetting that you'd preselected
reverse, and accidentally touching the operating pedal, is fairly
frightening.

Presumably part of the idea was to ensure that, before power steering,
and also in days when hand signals were important, the driver could
arrange to have both hands free at tricky moments.

Incidentally, thinking of technology that's changed on Routemasters
over the years, I'm intrigued by the conductors' new ticket machines
with Oyster readers. There appear to be two completely separate
units: is the unit attached to the conductor's belt purely a printer,
controlled from the red unit with the Oyster reader? And how do the
two units communicate? Infrared? Bluetooth? Some sort of
proprietary radio system? Teleportation?

In any case it looks as though a lot of work has gone into design and
manufacturing of these machines. If I didn't know better I'd see this
as a sign that conductor operation was here to stay on a large
scale...

Martin

Martin Rich wrote the following in:


From personal observation as a passenger - mostly on the 19 - a
majority of Routemasters still have the original type of gearbox.
This is an automatic, but left to its own devices seems set for
rather relaxed driving, and in particular always starts in second
gear. First gear (out of four) is only available if selected
manually. In practice most drivers seem to use these in
semi-automatic mode. The gear selector in these works in an 'H'
gate, much like a manual gearbox.

snip rest of post

Thanks for that very informative post! It answered a lot of questions I
had.

--
message by Robin May-Silk and his close friend, Robert Kilroy-Kotton
"GIVE IN! IT'S TIME TO GO!" - The NHS offers a high standard of care.

http://robinmay.fotopic.net
Spelling lesson: buses only has ONE s.

In ,
Martin Rich typed:

I've occasionally wondered, in retrospect, and maybe somebody reading
this knows: did reverse work the same way on preselective gearboxes?
The thought of travelling forward, forgetting that you'd preselected
reverse, and accidentally touching the operating pedal, is fairly
frightening.

I think a knob had to be pulled out before reverse could be selected and
that both hands were needed to do this, one for the knob and one for the
lever. It was not therefore some thign that was likely to be done with the
bus moving.

I may be wrong - it was almost 40 years ago since I used to sit behind
the driver on the 90B




Bob

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:12:41 +0100, Clive
wrote:


Slight change of subject. As an ex-bus driver in Bristol where our
double deckers had crash boxes, I remember a trip to London and on
travelling on an RM got the impression they had pre-selector boxes.
Can any confirm or deny this? Does anyone out there know how they
worked or have a link to which I could go to, to find out? Thanks for
any sensible answers.

Most Routmasters (indeed all RMs) had (have) fully automatic boxes.
The RMC and RCL classes, together with those RMLs built for what was
then the London Transport Country Bus division had semi-automatic
boxes and were somewhat more long legged. The earlier buses (RT and
RF families) had Wilson pre-select boxes.

If you want an interesting insight into the differences between the
various types, look up "London Buses - a View from the Driver's Cab"
by Ted Murphy, a book which I can thoroughly recommend.

Just to complete the picture from that (my) era, the GS class was
the only LT bus with a crash box, which worked back-to-front (just
like the Citroen "H" van I once owned).

I was a bus driver in the 1970s, and drove all the above in service,
except the GS, which I only ever drove unofficially.

--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com