Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

JNugent wrote:

You can't design a road for "no speed limit whatsoever".

I take your point.
A better phrase would been "was intended and built for no speed limit
whatsoever".

What a pity the drivers spoilt it by driving too fast and crashing too much,
then :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

In message , JNugent
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

If you mean the Chiswick flyover, it wasn't even part of the motorway
when it was built in 1959 by Tory transport minister Ernest Marples'
construction company, Marples Ridgway - it was just a flyover on the
A4.

You must be thinking of a different stretch of road - perhaps the
Hammersmith Flyover (which *is* part of the A4).

No, Richard J has outlined the correct sequence of events, and you will
also find them recorded at

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/4.shtml

where you will see that the Chiswick flyover opened in 1959. It didn't
become part of the M4 until 1965.

I'm sure the Chiswick Flyover was built in the 1960s (along with what was
then the rest of the M4, as far as Maidenhead).

It was originally going to be designated A4(M) [1] - ie, the motorway
was only going to be a bypass of A4 from Chiswick to Maidenhead), but
it was still a motorway.

The Maidenhead (eastern) bypass was indeed originally numbered A4(M) and
part of it was later incorporated into the M4 (*) - but the intention to
build a motorway from London to South Wales dates back to pre-war road
planning days. It was designated the "South Wales Motorway" at an early
stage, and appears as such in maps even before constructed started (e.g.
the 1961 Bartholomew Reference Atlas of London).

(*) See http://www.free-definition.com/A404M-motorway.html
--
Paul Terry

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

In message , Richard J.
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

If you mean the Chiswick flyover, it wasn't even part of the
motorway when it was built in 1959 by Tory transport minister
Ernest Marples' construction company, Marples Ridgway - it was just
a flyover on the A4.

Of course I don't mean the original Chiswick flyover, which doesn't have
any bends! .

Obviously I wasn't sufficiently clear: I refer to the bend immediately
to the west of the flyover.

I mean the first bend on the M4 elevated section, near the
EMC (ex-Data General) clock tower. See
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...&z=1&st=4&ar=Y

Yes, we are talking about the same bend.

--
Paul Terry

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

In article , Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
In ,
Paul Weaver typed:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
You can't design a road for "no speed limit whatsoever". Britain's

GErman Autobahns seem to throw that out of the window. Sure you can't
design a road for "no speed whatsoever", but theres no need for a
limit on many roads. At least that's what the most populous country
in Euroep seems to think.

Most populous != most densely populated, of course. England does pretty well
in the densely populated stakes.

Whereas the whole of the UK does less well. Similarly, certain Länder in
Germany do quite well.

For example, Nordrhein-Westfalen had 519 people per square kilometre in
1992 (probably more now), which is quite a bit higher than England. And
Nordrhein-Westfalen is a fairly sizeable Land, even if it's not the size
of England.

Niklas
--
"Since then, Kiev has survived Mongol invasions, devastating fires, communist
urban planning and the massive destruction of WWII."
-- Lonely Planet

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 at 19:46:58, Paul Weaver
wrote:

GErman Autobahns seem to throw that out of the window. Sure you can't design
a road for "no speed whatsoever", but theres no need for a limit on many
roads. At least that's what the most populous country in Euroep seems to
think.

Er, I hate to tell you but the maximum speed limit on a German motorway
is normally 130 kph.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

The Maidenhead (eastern) bypass was indeed originally numbered A4(M) and
part of it was later incorporated into the M4 (*) - but the intention to
build a motorway from London to South Wales dates back to pre-war road
planning days. It was designated the "South Wales Motorway" at an early
stage, and appears as such in maps even before constructed started (e.g.
the 1961 Bartholomew Reference Atlas of London).

(*) See http://www.free-definition.com/A404M-motorway.html

Somewhere I have a brochure produced in 1938-9 to promote industrial estates
in the Forest of Dean and Chepstow area, and that shows a dual carriageway
road tunnel under the Severn, running almost on the alignment of the now A49
and the first Severn Road Crossing.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

Annabel Smyth wrote:

Paul Weaver wrote:

GErman Autobahns seem to throw that out of the window. Sure you
can't design a road for "no speed whatsoever", but theres no need
for a limit on many roads. At least that's what the most populous
country in Euroep seems to think.

Er, I hate to tell you but the maximum speed limit on a German
motorway is normally 130 kph.

Er, I hate to have to tell you that you are wrong.


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 16/07/04

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 at 00:13:36, paul
wrote:


My understanding (based on dubious discussionswith policemen friends of
mine!) is that the motorway network in the uk is disigned for safe
travel within lanes upto 120mph. Greater speeds are safelypossible with
the full use of all carrigeways. This assumes good road conditions, and
competent drivers capable of accessing when it is safe to travel at
these speeds. This later point is why we have a maximum speed limit of
70mph on British roads.

I heard once that the police agree that motorways would be safe enough
at 80 mph (bringing them into line with their Continental counterparts),
but that they don't wish the speed limit to be increased since everybody
drives at 80 anyway, and if the speed limit were 80, everybody would
drive at 90, which they don't think is safe.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 at 17:45:49, JNugent
wrote:

Annabel Smyth wrote:

Paul Weaver wrote:

GErman Autobahns seem to throw that out of the window. Sure you
can't design a road for "no speed whatsoever", but theres no need
for a limit on many roads. At least that's what the most populous
country in Euroep seems to think.

Er, I hate to tell you but the maximum speed limit on a German
motorway is normally 130 kph.

Er, I hate to have to tell you that you are wrong.


Well, I can assure you that this is the case between the border at
Strasbourg and the other border at Salzburg! Or, it was so last
October, anyway; perhaps they have changed it within the last 9 months?

--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 18 July 2004

Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong
 

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:00:37 +0100, Annabel Smyth wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 at 17:45:49, JNugent
wrote:

Annabel Smyth wrote:

Paul Weaver wrote:

GErman Autobahns seem to throw that out of the window. Sure you
can't design a road for "no speed whatsoever", but theres no need
for a limit on many roads. At least that's what the most populous
country in Euroep seems to think.

Er, I hate to tell you but the maximum speed limit on a German
motorway is normally 130 kph.

Er, I hate to have to tell you that you are wrong.


Well, I can assure you that this is the case between the border at
Strasbourg and the other border at Salzburg! Or, it was so last
October, anyway; perhaps they have changed it within the last 9 months?

Sorry Annabel but you shouldn't conclude that the maximum speed limit on a
German motorway is normally 130 kph on the basis of a journey between
Strasbourg and Salzburg.

I assume you took the A5/A8? (I was on the A8 only two weeks ago.) It's
certainly true that large stretches of the A8 have speed limits. This is
because it's one of the oldest, busiest and most dangerous Autobahns. You
will have noticed how hilly it is, how many bends it has and that long
sections lack hard shoulders and adequate acceleration lanes.

If you'd been on another Autobahn (e.g. turned onto the A7 at Ulm) you'd
have encountered something quite different.
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He has Van Gogh's ear for music." - Billy Wilder
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk