IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or junction
11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at the moment, has
anyone heard if they plan to recitify the deficiency at the same time ? Or,
for that matter, ever?


Bob Martin
--
mailto

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of
which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or junction
11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at the moment, has
anyone heard if they plan to recitify the deficiency at the same time ?
Or,
for that matter, ever?

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most intensively used,
it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a service area. It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

There seems to have been a change in the design of motorway service stations
in recent years. Originally (with the exception of Scratchwood at the
southern end of the M1) two service stations have always been built - one
serving each direction with no vehicle link between the two. Now (M40
services, M25 services) one service station is built which is reached by
coming right off the motorway at a junction - this is probably more
efficient as it avoids duplication and allows the services to be used by
non-motorway traffic too. I wonder why this wasn't done from the start.

It's also surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25
to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Of course there's no reason this concept would only need to be confined to
the M25 - at almost all US Interstate exits there is signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach the exit,
and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all, its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

Undoubtedly, the existing service areas operators would go out of their way
to lobby for killing the proposal before it started, even if it were
intended only to be used in areas where there are no service area: their
underlying fear would be it could lead to a groundswell of support for
widening the concept to areas where it could cause competition with what
they regard as their god (or, at least, Department for Transport -- DfT)
given right to hugely over-charge consumers at existing service areas.

So I doubt that DfT, even working to a Government that allegedly isn't in
the back pockets of "big business", would have the guts to introduce the
concept in the face of such probable opposition. Indeed, it could well be
that such an obvious idea has already been considered and rejected for this
reason, I suppose!

In message , Bob Martin
writes

IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or junction
11 (M3).

No. 4 was originally intended to be at Iver, a little north of junction
15 - the plan was abandoned around 1990 due to M25 widening.

As there is another bout of works around J11 at the moment, has
anyone heard if they plan to recitify the deficiency at the same time ? Or,
for that matter, ever?

Cobham (between jcts 9 and 10) was the subject of a recent public
enquiry looking into a number of new motorway service areas west of
London. However, although the enquiry has finished, I last heard that it
was not due to report until 2005 and was waiting, amongst other things,
for traffic projections post Heathrow T5.

--
Paul Terry

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or
junction
11 (M3).

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most intensively used,
it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a service area. It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Good point - of course it couldn't work at J11 (motorway:motorway only), but
any obvious reason they couldn't do something like that for the A3 junction?

In message , User23
writes

It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Good point - of course it couldn't work at J11 (motorway:motorway only), but
any obvious reason they couldn't do something like that for the A3 junction?

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to be
that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long deviation.

--
Paul Terry

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to be
that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long deviation.

Surely other easy option for a "quick fix" at M25 J10 would be to route to
"local services" like Cobham, which has, amongst other things, a large
Sainsbury's, complete with Restaurant and Petrol Station, just off the A3?

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...

signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach the exit,
and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all, its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely on
conspiracy theories.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time taken? I
can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels about who should be on
the list as nearest.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing someone
running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the motorway to a place
that has shut down.

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date. As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Dave

In article , Dave Liney
writes

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date. As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Dave

When the M40 was first extended there were no service areas and signs
were provided across Oxon and Warks to local fuel stations with details
of their opening hours.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Martin
writes

IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of
which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or
junction
11 (M3).

Cobham (between jcts 9 and 10) was the subject of a recent public
enquiry looking into a number of new motorway service areas west of
London. However, although the enquiry has finished, I last heard that it
was not due to report until 2005 and was waiting, amongst other things,
for traffic projections post Heathrow T5.

There certainly was a proposal for a service area at Downside (just south of
Cobham) three years or so ago but the usual NIMBYs hated the idea of the
employment that would be attracted to the area. Even in stockbroker Surrey,
some blue collar jobs are needed!