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LU Driver Duties
For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time
for the following components of the days work? Time between signing on and taking over train. Time driving before break. Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) Time driving after break. Time between leaving train and signing off. Obviously the shift make-up will vary depending on loads of factors but just want an idea of what would be typical. -- gordon |
LU Driver Duties
"Sharon & Gordon Thomson" wrote in message ... For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time for the following components of the days work? Time between signing on and taking over train. 7mins to sign on, checking notice boards and such, including 2mins walking (to train time) plus say another 2 or 3 walking time average. So anything from 7-10mins. Doesn't include train prep. which would add another 10-15 Or even travelling to a depot that's remote from the booking on point. Could be shortest 7mins - longest 55mins in my duty book. Time driving before break. In my duty book anything from 45mins- upto 4hours 15mins Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) at least 30mins plus traveling time to canteen upto 1hour 40mins Average 50mins of which 30mins is unpaid Time driving after break. Same as above Time between leaving train and signing off. can be 0mins usually 4mins and then extra if stabling train in depot. So 0 to 45mins Obviously the shift make-up will vary depending on loads of factors but just want an idea of what would be typical. ok book on 1432, travel to depot and prep train leaving 1527 meal relief 1803-1907 finish 2222 book off 2226 -- gordon of course each line has different ways of doing things but its always at least 7mins booking on minium 30mins break at canteen no more than 4hours 15 driving each half (except in emergencies) but could be upto 5hours 15before or after break including travelling/sitting spare 0mins booking off Colin |
LU Driver Duties
In message , Sharon & Gordon Thomson
writes For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time for the following components of the days work? I can only speak for the Piccadilly line but most of these are the agreed parameters for the Underground... Time between signing on and taking over train. 19 minutes (includes 7 mins walking time to Arnos Grove platform) Time driving before break. Maximum of 4 hours 15 mins. Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) 30 minutes unpaid break. Time driving after break. Maximum of 4 hours 15 minutes Time between leaving train and signing off. Generally nil (typically duties book off on the platform, although some do have up to 7 minutes at the end). Obviously the shift make-up will vary depending on loads of factors but just want an idea of what would be typical. Minimum duty length is 4 hours, maximum is 8 hours - plus your meal break so maximum rostered time can be 8 1/2 hours. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
LU Driver Duties
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LU Driver Duties
"Sharon & Gordon Thomson" wrote in message ... For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time for the following components of the days work? Gordon, Check out District Dave's website: http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave/ and TubePrune's website: http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/ There's more information there than you could ever need to know! HTH, Dave -- (remove spamblock or reply to group) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004 |
LU Driver Duties
Thanks folks for providing the gen in such detail - much appreciated.
-- gordon |
LU Driver Duties
"Colin" wrote in message ... Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) at least 30mins plus traveling time to canteen up to 1hour 40mins Average 50mins of which 30mins is unpaid Will the unpaid break always be at/near the sign-on/sign-off point or could you potentially sign-on at/near one end of a line and have an unpaid break at/near the other extremity of the line? Also will there always be a maximum of one unpaid break per shift? -- gordon |
LU Driver Duties
Sharon & Gordon Thomson wrote:
"Colin" wrote in message ... Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) at least 30mins plus traveling time to canteen up to 1hour 40mins Average 50mins of which 30mins is unpaid Will the unpaid break always be at/near the sign-on/sign-off point No. or could you potentially sign-on at/near one end of a line and have an unpaid break at/near the other extremity of the line? Also will there always be a maximum of one unpaid break per shift? Yes. |
LU Driver Duties
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... Sharon & Gordon Thomson wrote: "Colin" wrote in message ... Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) at least 30mins plus traveling time to canteen up to 1hour 40mins Average 50mins of which 30mins is unpaid Will the unpaid break always be at/near the sign-on/sign-off point No. It can be anywhere on the line that has crew facilities - not a canteen. But hot cold/drinks, toilets and somewhere to sit! But that doesn't mean that after 4hrs 15 you just leave the train where it is and go upstairs in to MacDs or could you potentially sign-on at/near one end of a line and have an unpaid break at/near the other extremity of the line? Also will there always be a maximum of one unpaid break per shift? Yes. But that doesn't mean that the duty would have only one break. You always get 30mins unpaid. Regardless of the length or amount of breaks it has. Saying that it's only a couple of duties on my line that have more than one break/step back in excess of 30mins as well as the proper meal relief. |
LU Driver Duties
In message , Sharon & Gordon Thomson
writes Time allotted for break. (Is this time paid or unpaid?) at least 30mins plus traveling time to canteen up to 1hour 40mins Average 50mins of which 30mins is unpaid Will the unpaid break always be at/near the sign-on/sign-off point or could you potentially sign-on at/near one end of a line and have an unpaid break at/near the other extremity of the line? Also will there always be a maximum of one unpaid break per shift? In the case on the Piccadilly, it's usually where you book on (we only have the choice of Arnos Grove or Acton Town). As an Arnos driver I sometimes have my break at Acton. It will always be at a train crew depot though. And, yes, there's only one break per shift, although on a 'snip' turn it's frequently tagged onto the end of the duty. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
LU Driver Duties
In message , Colin
writes It can be anywhere on the line that has crew facilities - not a canteen. But hot cold/drinks, toilets and somewhere to sit! But that doesn't mean that after 4hrs 15 you just leave the train where it is and go upstairs in to MacDs You don't?? You're on the wrong line :-) -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
LU Driver Duties
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
In message , Sharon & Gordon Thomson writes For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time for the following components of the days work? I can only speak for the Piccadilly line but most of these are the agreed parameters for the Underground... Time between signing on and taking over train. 19 minutes (includes 7 mins walking time to Arnos Grove platform) Which explains some of the frequent delays at Arnos Grove usually northbound but sometimes south too as a full train waits for Mr Driver to stroll down and take over from his colleague. Why they couldn't have made cockfosters the booking on point is anyones guess. B2003 |
LU Driver Duties
"Boltar" wrote in message om... Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ... In message , Sharon & Gordon Thomson writes For a typical LU Driver's shift what would be the approx amount of duty time for the following components of the days work? I can only speak for the Piccadilly line but most of these are the agreed parameters for the Underground... Time between signing on and taking over train. 19 minutes (includes 7 mins walking time to Arnos Grove platform) Which explains some of the frequent delays at Arnos Grove usually northbound but sometimes south too as a full train waits for Mr Driver to stroll down and take over from his colleague. Why they couldn't have made cockfosters the booking on point is anyones guess. There used to be three, Arnos Grove, Oakwood and Wood Green. They put them all at AG 'cause it's more efficient - they said. At the west end of the Picc there used to be Acton, South Harrow and Northfields. All now at AT. |
LU Driver Duties
In message , Boltar
writes 19 minutes (includes 7 mins walking time to Arnos Grove platform) Which explains some of the frequent delays at Arnos Grove usually northbound but sometimes south too as a full train waits for Mr Driver to stroll down and take over from his colleague. Why they couldn't have made cockfosters the booking on point is anyones guess. If the booking on point was CFS, it would cause even more problems in that service recovery would be virtually impossible after a shutdown or other problems. Also, a number of trains are booked to reverse at AGR as CFS couldn't cope in the peaks. BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're referring to the eastbound? -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
LU Driver Duties
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're referring to the eastbound? I use real directions , not LU directions. Calling the line going south from Cockfosters "westbound" is utterly absurd given that it actually runs southeast to oakwood and south from there! It may be consistent for internal LU uses to just use east-west but I know from personal experience that it completely confuses out of towners. B2003 |
LU Driver Duties
Boltar wrote:
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ... BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're referring to the eastbound? I use real directions , not LU directions. Calling the line going south from Cockfosters "westbound" is utterly absurd given that it actually runs southeast to oakwood and south from there! It may be consistent for internal LU uses to just use east-west but I know from personal experience that it completely confuses out of towners. Nevertheless, Cockfosters is to the east of both Uxbridge and Heathrow, therefore eastbound and westbound make more sense when considering the l;ine as a whole. Unless you are suggesting that the description should change with every twist and turn the railway makes? In my experience most people not versed in internal LU terminology have no difficulty with east/west or north/south bound since they don't know their east from their sou'-sou'-west. They merely establish the direction they wish to go in and follow the signs, easy innit? |
LU Driver Duties
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...
Boltar wrote: Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ... BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're referring to the eastbound? I use real directions , not LU directions. Calling the line going south from Cockfosters "westbound" is utterly absurd given that it actually runs southeast to oakwood and south from there! It may be consistent for internal LU uses to just use east-west but I know from personal experience that it completely confuses out of towners. Nevertheless, Cockfosters is to the east of both Uxbridge and Heathrow, therefore eastbound and westbound make more sense when considering the l;ine as a whole. Unless you are suggesting that the description should change with every twist and turn the railway makes? Yes. Or would you suggest every railway in the country only uses one direction measurement no matter how it twists and turns? Besides which north and south bound were used for years north of kings cross. In my experience most people not versed in internal LU terminology have no difficulty with east/west or north/south bound since they don't know their east from their sou'-sou'-west. They merely establish the direction they wish to go in and follow the signs, easy innit? Last time I took some friends around london they looked at the piccadilly line on the map , saw it going north-south and so naturally looked for the north and southbound signs. Imagine their pleasent surprise when they didn't find them. NO its not easy at first if you're in a crowded station looking for a sign saying north and only have ones saying east and west (oh , but the northern line which goes in the same direction as the piccadilly DOES have northbound). Theres logic for you. B2003 |
LU Driver Duties
Boltar wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... Boltar wrote: Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ... BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're referring to the eastbound? I use real directions , not LU directions. Calling the line going south from Cockfosters "westbound" is utterly absurd given that it actually runs southeast to oakwood and south from there! It may be consistent for internal LU uses to just use east-west but I know from personal experience that it completely confuses out of towners. Nevertheless, Cockfosters is to the east of both Uxbridge and Heathrow, therefore eastbound and westbound make more sense when considering the l;ine as a whole. Unless you are suggesting that the description should change with every twist and turn the railway makes? Yes. Or would you suggest every railway in the country only uses one direction measurement no matter how it twists and turns? Besides which north and south bound were used for years north of kings cross. In my experience most people not versed in internal LU terminology have no difficulty with east/west or north/south bound since they don't know their east from their sou'-sou'-west. They merely establish the direction they wish to go in and follow the signs, easy innit? Last time I took some friends around london they looked at the piccadilly line on the map , saw it going north-south and so naturally looked for the north and southbound signs. Imagine their pleasent surprise when they didn't find them. NO its not easy at first if you're in a crowded station looking for a sign saying north and only have ones saying east and west (oh , but the northern line which goes in the same direction as the piccadilly DOES have northbound). Theres logic for you. OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them? |
LU Driver Duties
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...
OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them? You label them in whatever direction they're going at that station according to the map. You don't show it going north on a map then write "westbound" on all the station signs. Or better yet do what other systems do and label them by their end stations. Eg towards cockfosters or towards heathrow/uxbridge. This was also done on the underground years ago. Not sure if it still is these days. B2003 |
LU Driver Duties
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LU Driver Duties
Time between leaving train and signing off.
Generally nil (typically duties book off on the platform, although some do have up to 7 minutes at the end). According to District Dave's website (http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...318_duty.html), there's one duty on the District Line with an hour and six minutes between leaving the train at Barking EB and booking off at Earl's Court. (Incidentally, this website's well worth a look at - the story about him ending up at South Harrow is HILARIOUS!!!) |
LU Driver Duties
On 1 Sep 2004, Boltar wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them? You label them in whatever direction they're going at that station according to the map. You don't show it going north on a map then write "westbound" on all the station signs. There's also the issue of direction on the map vs direction on the ground, which aren't always the same; the former corresponds to passengers' mental model of the network, but it's also subject to change. Or better yet do what other systems do and label them by their end stations. Eg towards cockfosters or towards heathrow/uxbridge. This was also done on the underground years ago. Not sure if it still is these days. I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't), it means you need a map to interpret the signs. And how would it work on lines that branch? "Towards Edgware, High Barnet and Mill Hill East" is a bit of a mouthful. How would it work on the circle line? I think Liverpool Street would not be improved by a platform called "Towards Hammersmith, Uxbridge, Amersham, Chesham (sometimes), Watford and Liverpool Street (via Baker Street before Tower Hill)". I think this is a matter of taste: i like the system where each direction has one consistent name over the whole line. Some of the problems with this could be overcome by using 'fractional' compass points: the Picc, for example, could have North-East and South-West directions (although in the case of Uxbridge etc, this would be some new meaning of the term 'south-west' of which most people were previously not aware). Don't ask me how you'd name the Jubilee. Oh, and the Circle line directions should be Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise. This is not an opinion - this is a fact, proven by science. Perhaps (and this is not an entirely serious suggestion) we just need to pick a pair of names which don't have any specific geographical connotation and use those consistently along the whole line: Up and Down come close, are nicely traditional, but can't really be applied inside London; i suggest Ana and Kata, these being the traditional extra directions in maths. Hmm. It would be nice if, wherever two lines shared a platform or had crossplatform or otherwise parallel interchange, their directions were coherent (ie at Finsbury Park, Victoria ana and Piccadilly ana were next to each other). Apart from the circle line (and ignoring Woodford and Heathrow), would the network support that? Let's see - we can start with the Metropolitan, declare it to have its kata end at Aldgate, then walk along and transfer the direction to the lines it runs along with (my notation is line: kata end (determining line @ interchange station)): Met: Aldgate Picc: Cockfosters (Met @ Rayners Lane) Jubilee: Stratford (Met @ Wembley Park) H&C: Barking (Met @ Baker Street) District: Upminster (Picc @ Ealing Common) Victoria: Walthamstow (Picc @ Finsbury Park) Central: Epping (District @ Ealing Broadway) Bakerloo: Elephant & Castle (Met @ Baker Street - weak) Northern: Morden (Bakerloo @ Embankment - weak) W&C: Waterloo (Northern @ Bank - weak) ELL: has no parallel interchanges DLR: incoherent (District @ Bank vs Central @ Stratford) NLL: incoherent (District @ Richmond vs Jubilee @ West Ham) Have i missed any interchanges in the centre of town? The map doesn't show any as parallel, but they might be in reality. Anyway, basically, it works, with 'kata' more or less meaning 'east' - the Northern line is the only major exception. Funny how all the lines with branches have them at the ana end. tom -- OK, mostly because of Tom, but not only because of his bloody irritating character and songs. |
LU Driver Duties
Tom Anderson wrote:
On 1 Sep 2004, Boltar wrote: "Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them? You label them in whatever direction they're going at that station according to the map. You don't show it going north on a map then write "westbound" on all the station signs. There's also the issue of direction on the map vs direction on the ground, which aren't always the same; the former corresponds to passengers' mental model of the network, but it's also subject to change. Or better yet do what other systems do and label them by their end stations. Eg towards cockfosters or towards heathrow/uxbridge. This was also done on the underground years ago. Not sure if it still is these days. I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - Having lived in Paris (where they label by terminus) and London (labelled by quasi-direction), I don't find it unhelpful at all. unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't) But you think they would know that Westminster is East of South Kensington, or that East Finchley is South of West Finchley? , it means you need a map to interpret the signs. As, indeed, you do now. As Chris Tarrant says, "It's only easy if you know" (or whatever it is). And how would it work on lines that branch? "Towards Edgware, High Barnet and Mill Hill East" is a bit of a mouthful. Slightly. The fact that LU has more branches than (say) Paris, does make more termini, though they certainly do this too. "Direction Villejuif Louis Aragon/Mairie D/Ivry" is one, whilst another is the incredibly long-winded "Direction Gabriel Peri Asnieres-Gennevilliers/St-Denis-Universite" (that's only two - they just have some stupidly long names for some of the termini). How would it work on the circle line? Wouldn't clockwise and anticlockwise be blindingly obvious? (That's not a dig at you - I just can't believe it's not used already.) The current labelling is chronically bad. If I am at Liverpool Street, I don't have a CLUE (I've been there enough times - it just is not intuitive enough for me to remember) which is East and which is West. I think Liverpool Street would not be improved by a platform called "Towards Hammersmith, Uxbridge, Amersham, Chesham (sometimes), Watford and Liverpool Street (via Baker Street before Tower Hill)". It wouldn't hurt - at least you would have a clue if you were going to one of those places - but it's even *more* long-winded than the terminus-naming of course. I think this is a matter of taste: i like the system where each direction has one consistent name over the whole line. I would too, if it were of any help, but to be honest I don't find it particularly helpful (except on straightish lines) anyway. Some of the problems with this could be overcome by using 'fractional' compass points: the Picc, for example, could have North-East and South-West directions (although in the case of Uxbridge etc, this would be some new meaning of the term 'south-west' of which most people were previously not aware). Well, if we wanted it to be twice as complicated as now, yep :-) Don't ask me how you'd name the Jubilee. Stanmore - Stratford? :-) Easy, innit? [snip lots of stuff where I'm just *sure* you're taking the ****!] To be fair, the only downside of terminus-naming, compared to how it works in Paris is the fact that trains almost always terminate at the terminus in Paris, whereas in London they can end their journey at various locations. But at least the passenger is on the right platform and going in the right direction. dave dave |
LU Driver Duties
Tom Anderson wrote:
Oh, and the Circle line directions should be Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise. This is not an opinion - this is a fact, proven by science. What is this "fact" proven by science? Personally, I find it much quicker to relate Inner Rail and Outer Rail to a direction than Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise, which I find unnecessarily indirect. (I have to remember first which way analogue clocks move, which to a mathematician is the "wrong" or negative direction. Why people still want to tell the time by looking at the angles of two sticks is a mystery to me.) Perhaps (and this is not an entirely serious suggestion) we just need to pick a pair of names which don't have any specific geographical connotation and use those consistently along the whole line: Up and Down come close, are nicely traditional, but can't really be applied inside London; i suggest Ana and Kata, these being the traditional extra directions in maths. I think your traditions are rather younger than mine. Hmm. It would be nice if, wherever two lines shared a platform or had crossplatform or otherwise parallel interchange, their directions were coherent (ie at Finsbury Park, Victoria ana and Piccadilly ana were next to each other). Apart from the circle line (and ignoring Woodford and Heathrow), would the network support that? Let's see - we can start with the Metropolitan, declare it to have its kata end at Aldgate, then walk along and transfer the direction to the lines it runs along with (my notation is line: kata end (determining line @ interchange station)): Met: Aldgate Picc: Cockfosters (Met @ Rayners Lane) Jubilee: Stratford (Met @ Wembley Park) H&C: Barking (Met @ Baker Street) District: Upminster (Picc @ Ealing Common) Victoria: Walthamstow (Picc @ Finsbury Park) Central: Epping (District @ Ealing Broadway) Bakerloo: Elephant & Castle (Met @ Baker Street - weak) Northern: Morden (Bakerloo @ Embankment - weak) W&C: Waterloo (Northern @ Bank - weak) ELL: has no parallel interchanges DLR: incoherent (District @ Bank vs Central @ Stratford) NLL: incoherent (District @ Richmond vs Jubilee @ West Ham) Have i missed any interchanges in the centre of town? The map doesn't show any as parallel, but they might be in reality. Anyway, basically, it works, with 'kata' more or less meaning 'east' - the Northern line is the only major exception. Warren Street to Stockwell: via Victoria line ana-bound; via Northern Line kata-bound. Similarly, the cross-platform interchanges between the Victoria Line and the Bank branch of the Northern Line would be between an ana-bound and a kata-bound train. An interesting intellectual exercise, but please don't get a job in LU! :-) -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
LU Driver Duties
James wrote:
Time between leaving train and signing off. Generally nil (typically duties book off on the platform, although some do have up to 7 minutes at the end). According to District Dave's website (http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...318_duty.html), there's one duty on the District Line with an hour and six minutes between leaving the train at Barking EB and booking off at Earl's Court. (Incidentally, this website's well worth a look at - the story about him ending up at South Harrow is HILARIOUS!!!) This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when approaching Hanger Lane Junction. http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hlj/HLJOriginal.html |
LU Driver Duties
This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when
approaching Hanger Lane Junction. So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow or Rayners Lane in recent times? Burkey |
LU Driver Duties
JWBA68 wrote:
This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when approaching Hanger Lane Junction. So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow or Rayners Lane in recent times? Now what on earth leads you to ask that question? :-) Not for several months that I'm aware of |
LU Driver Duties
"JWBA68" wrote in message
... So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow or Rayners Lane in recent times? There was the time that a Piccadilly Line driver leaving Uxbridge accepted the wrong signal at Rayners and ended up in Harrow-On-The-Hill, whereupon the driver of the adjacent Metropolitan Line train got out, walked across the platform and handed him a tube map. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
LU Driver Duties
Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 1 Sep 2004:
I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't), it means you need a map to interpret the signs. Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which labels by terminus. Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just about manage north and south, but that's it! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ |
LU Driver Duties
Annabel Smyth wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 1 Sep 2004: I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't), it means you need a map to interpret the signs. Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which labels by terminus. Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just about manage north and south, but that's it! If you know the city (whichever it is) it probably is easier. But how about people who have just got off a plane at Heathrow and there are two trains sitting there, one with Cockfosters and the other with Arnos Grove on the front and you want to get to Morden (say)? |
LU Driver Duties
John Rowland wrote:
"JWBA68" wrote in message ... So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow or Rayners Lane in recent times? There was the time that a Piccadilly Line driver leaving Uxbridge accepted the wrong signal at Rayners and ended up in Harrow-On-The-Hill, whereupon the driver of the adjacent Metropolitan Line train got out, walked across the platform and handed him a tube map. Old story John, but still a good'un. |
LU Driver Duties
Piccadilly Pilot wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 2 Sep 2004:
If you know the city (whichever it is) it probably is easier. But how about people who have just got off a plane at Heathrow and there are two trains sitting there, one with Cockfosters and the other with Arnos Grove on the front and you want to get to Morden (say)? But I didn't know the city when I first arrived there, how could I? And what is a journey planner for, in any city (why, oh why, was the New York one so confusing?) but to find out how to get from A to B. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ |
LU Driver Duties
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LU Driver Duties
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...
James wrote: Time between leaving train and signing off. Generally nil (typically duties book off on the platform, although some do have up to 7 minutes at the end). According to District Dave's website (http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...318_duty.html), there's one duty on the District Line with an hour and six minutes between leaving the train at Barking EB and booking off at Earl's Court. (Incidentally, this website's well worth a look at - the story about him ending up at South Harrow is HILARIOUS!!!) This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when approaching Hanger Lane Junction. http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hlj/HLJOriginal.html Nice one, Picc Pilot!!! Though quite frankly, I'd like to see the big trains get ALL the western branches back (although this would probably entail rebuilding the junctions at both ends of Earl's Court to actually create some capacity (the Eastbound is particularly ****poor))! |
LU Driver Duties
"Boltar" wrote in message
om... Why would out-of-towners want to go to Cockfosters? Middlesex polytechnic .. sorry I mean university. That's in Oakwood! -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
LU Driver Duties
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Richard J. wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: Oh, and the Circle line directions should be Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise. This is not an opinion - this is a fact, proven by science. What is this "fact" proven by science? THAT I AM RIGHT. :) Personally, I find it much quicker to relate Inner Rail and Outer Rail to a direction than Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise, which I find unnecessarily indirect. (I have to remember first which way analogue clocks move, which to a mathematician is the "wrong" or negative direction. Why people still want to tell the time by looking at the angles of two sticks is a mystery to me.) Personally, i find that much slower, since i have to remember first which side the trains drive on. i suggest Ana and Kata, these being the traditional extra directions in maths. I think your traditions are rather younger than mine. It is more likely that i have misapprehended them. Hmm. It would be nice if, [...] Have i missed any interchanges in the centre of town? The map doesn't show any as parallel, but they might be in reality. Anyway, basically, it works, with 'kata' more or less meaning 'east' - the Northern line is the only major exception. Warren Street to Stockwell: via Victoria line ana-bound; via Northern Line kata-bound. That wasn't a criterion! There are probably quite a few cases where you can make the same trip by going in different directions on different lines; i was only concerned with specifically parallel interchanges. Similarly, the cross-platform interchanges between the Victoria Line and the Bank branch of the Northern Line would be between an ana-bound and a kata-bound train. I wasn't aware that such things existed - is that at Euston? An interesting intellectual exercise, but please don't get a job in LU! Oh, i don't think they need my skills in the confusing-the-hell-out-of-people department. tom -- I gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! -- The Doomguy |
LU Driver Duties
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Dave Newt wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: On 1 Sep 2004, Boltar wrote: "Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them? You label them in whatever direction they're going at that station according to the map. You don't show it going north on a map then write "westbound" on all the station signs. Or better yet do what other systems do and label them by their end stations. Eg towards cockfosters or towards heathrow/uxbridge. This was also done on the underground years ago. Not sure if it still is these days. I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - Having lived in Paris (where they label by terminus) and London (labelled by quasi-direction), I don't find it unhelpful at all. It very much sounds like people who've used both prefer the Paris system, so perhaps i'm in the wrong here. unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't) But you think they would know that Westminster is East of South Kensington, or that East Finchley is South of West Finchley? If they actually knew where those places were, then yes. If they don't know where they're going, the names of the directions are the least of their concerns. , it means you need a map to interpret the signs. As, indeed, you do now. You need more geographical knowledge to do it your way than mine - under my system, people need to know the relative positions of their start and end stations; under yours, they need to know that, plus the positions of the termini. I've lived in London for a year now, and i still couldn't tell you the terminus of every tube line off the top of my head (and i could only tell you, if you gave me the name, that Stanmore was the western end of the Jubilee because i know Stratford's at the other end!). tom -- I gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! -- The Doomguy |
LU Driver Duties
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:04:26 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 1 Sep 2004: I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't), it means you need a map to interpret the signs. Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which labels by terminus. Hmm - interesting. The first time I visited Paris I needed to get from St Lazare to Gare du Lyon and got hopelessly lost. For some utterly stupid reason I had assumed that the Metro directional signing would be like the Tube. Wrong. Although I am very familiar with the LU network and really do not need to have a map at all to get round I have got used to the Paris way of doing things and although I need a map I can orientate myself very quickly when scooting about by Metro. Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just about manage north and south, but that's it! I don't have this difficulty but I did find Tokyo immensely difficult to get round because of the very confusing and inconsistent designs of street maps, street naming and building numbering. That was even before the challenge of even trying to understand kanji characters. Thankfully there is English used on the main elements of the public transport network. I didn't venture anywhere by bus but the subway and surface rail system was exceptionally good. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
LU Driver Duties
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:04:26 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote: Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which labels by terminus. Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just about manage north and south, but that's it! I must say I've always wondered why the Circle Line isn't labelled as "Circle Line Clockwise" and "Circle Line Anticlockwise", as working it out with the "via" points can take some time if you're not too familiar with it, whereas you can see clockwise/anticlockwise on the Tube map very easily. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
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