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Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:08:52 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: It pains me, as a notorious woolly liberal, to have to agree wholeheartedly. Riding in the smoke the other day along one of those hellish contraflow cycle lanes bounded by high kerbs (so overtaking was almost impossible) a long line of cyclists finally managed to pass an 8mph old codger on a gas-pipe Raleigh, only to have him wobble straight past, across a red light and into the next section ahead of the line. I really did come very close to kicking the old fart off his bike. And I really am the most gentle of souls, I can only remember ever hitting one person in my life, and that in self-defence after I was amushed by a group of yobs. Also annoying are the ones ones who stop at the light, but not behind you or alongside you. Instead they overtake you, then stop in front of you somewhere in the middle of the junction. Then at the next light, after you've already been track-standing for 20 seconds, they do it again. -- Dave... Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:52:23 +0100, Tony Raven
wrote: Did that yesterday in London to get to the ASL. When I got there the car at the front sounded its horn and then pulled away through a red light. Sometimes getting in front of the cyclist is just too important for some drivers. Ah, the golden rule again. -- Dave... Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:04:41 +0100, "Paul Weaver"
wrote in message : I'm getting a feeling of deja-vu Can I help it if cager trolls are sufficiently uninventive as to require the same reply each time? ;-) Ah, so you are going to break your word and drive incorrectly (i.e. illegally) based on the behaviour of a small group of cyclists who, incidentally, are every bit as unpopular with us cyclists as they are with cagers. I wouldn't classify them as a small group, especially in London. The main problem as far as I can see it is that London is mistaken for the general situation by most journos. Where I am, the majority of cyclists ride completely legally. Those who do not are mainly teenage boys, a groups not noted for their compliance with regulations in any area - and I'd rather they were on bikes than in cars. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
In message , Ian F.
writes ASL? Advanced stop line. http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml#154 Maybe it's time to reacquaint yourself with the rules of the road you seem to assume belongs to you? I do drive my vehicle correctly. And I'm not tense, or stressed, or prone to flagellatory flights of fancy. I just hate cyclists and the way they (present company excepted) reckon they own the road - riding on the pavement, jumping red lights, yelling abuse at elderly people and so on. From the Westminster Cycling Campaign homepage http://www.westminstercyclists.fsnet.co.uk/ "Although many pedestrians are afraid of unauthorised cyclists on the footway and quite rightly resent their presence there, collisions are thankfully ra the most common experience is that someone was "nearly knocked down" by a cyclist. To put the problem in perspective, one pedestrian was reported injured by a cyclist on the footway in Westminster over the five years 1994-8. This figure compares with 246 pedestrians who were reported injured by motor vehicles on the footway in Westminster over the same period." Seems that the poor pedestrians and elderly, etc, really have more to worry about than cyclists. -- congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google http://congokid.com |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:42 +0100, congokid
wrote: "Although many pedestrians are afraid of unauthorised cyclists on the footway and quite rightly resent their presence there, collisions are thankfully ra the most common experience is that someone was "nearly knocked down" by a cyclist. To put the problem in perspective, one pedestrian was reported injured by a cyclist on the footway in Westminster over the five years 1994-8. This figure compares with 246 pedestrians who were reported injured by motor vehicles on the footway in Westminster over the same period." I think "reported" is the key word here. People generally won't bother reporting accidents involving a cyclist and pedestrian as the chance of any action being taken is minimal. Such an incident is, IMO, more likely to end in a "frank discussion" and both parties leaving the scene without exchanging details. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Neil Williams wrote:
I think "reported" is the key word here. People generally won't bother reporting accidents involving a cyclist and pedestrian as the chance of any action being taken is minimal. Such an incident is, IMO, more likely to end in a "frank discussion" and both parties leaving the scene without exchanging details. I think you can say the same thing about "incidents" involving most vehicles. They only tend to get reported if someone is injured or the damage is significant. Tony |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
In message , Neil Williams
writes On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:42 +0100, congokid wrote: "Although many pedestrians are afraid of unauthorised cyclists on the footway and quite rightly resent their presence there, collisions are thankfully ra the most common experience is that someone was "nearly knocked down" by a cyclist. To put the problem in perspective, one pedestrian was reported injured by a cyclist on the footway in Westminster over the five years 1994-8. This figure compares with 246 pedestrians who were reported injured by motor vehicles on the footway in Westminster over the same period." I think "reported" is the key word here. People generally won't bother reporting accidents involving a cyclist and pedestrian as the chance of any action being taken is minimal. Such an incident is, IMO, more likely to end in a "frank discussion" and both parties leaving the scene without exchanging details. True. Though at least they're fit enough to leave the scene without having to go straight to hospital. -- congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google http://congokid.com |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:55:16 +0100, "Stimpy"
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: What this is really about is that the costs of breaking the law aren't internalised; the drivers' illegal actions cost time, money and lives, but the costs are borne by other road users, the state, and cyclists and pedestrians. If the costs could be transferred to the delivery companies, then it would be in their economic interests to have good drivers. This is well nigh impossible to do perfectly, but covering the country in smart CCTV with automatic fines for any traffic offence would be a start. ...and who pays for the 'smart CCTV' system? Answer; road users, the state, and cyclists and pedestrians. Most other industries pay for their own safety and monitoring systems so let's assume motoring to be no different and the costs are raised from the users; with fines from offenders being one mechanism. There then becomes an economic and business case to run a safe operation. If costs of the infrastructure are also raised via usage charges, there may be the added benefit that it becomes financially sensible to use other transport modes. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:25:28 +0100, Danny Colyer
wrote: A while ago, a regular on urc was injured when a POB rode off a pavement into him without looking. I have had to slam the brakes on on occasion to avoid POB's doing the same thing. I had to do this last Tuesday. A cycling postman in the centre of Christchurch rode off the pavement right into my path. And to think, Royal Mail insists they're safe if they wear helmets. -- Cheers, Al |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:08:52 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: I really did come very close to kicking the old fart off his bike. Mild punishment. No cutting? No shooting? No burning? -- Cheers, Al |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
... cager ? trolls Not me, young feller-me-lad. Been a regular on utl and several other groups since God was a boy. Ian |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
Riding in the smoke the other day along one of those hellish contraflow cycle lanes bounded by high kerbs (so overtaking was almost impossible) a long line of cyclists finally managed to pass an 8mph old codger on a gas-pipe Raleigh Remember, the speed limit is a limit, not a target. , only to have him wobble straight past, across a red light and into the next section ahead of the line. This bit was the only thing he did wrong. -- Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/ "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:58:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby
wrote in message : , only to have him wobble straight past, across a red light and into the next section ahead of the line. This bit was the only thing he did wrong. It was the thing he did wrong. If you were driving a tractor and a long queue of cars had finally managed to pass you, would you then trundle past them all at the next set of lights and drop back in front? It's a narrow, constrained lane, and he was riding smack in the middle (if people move over there is room to pass). Held up once? No problem at all. Held up and then he passes the queue and drops back in front? ******. Add the red light jumping? Death is too good for him! Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:27:36 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote in message : cager ? trolls Not me, young feller-me-lad. Been a regular on utl and several other groups since God was a boy. Maybe, maybe not. Fact is, the "cyclists don't pay" argument is a cager troll, whoever posts it :-) Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:58:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby wrote in message : , only to have him wobble straight past, across a red light and into the next section ahead of the line. This bit was the only thing he did wrong. It was the thing he did wrong. [...] You made a point of noting he was doing 8 mph on a "gas-pipe Raleigh". I think it would be a shame if we gave the impression that people who do 8 MPH on gas-pipe Raleighs somehow didn't belong on the road just because they delay your journey. -- Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/ Turning rebellion into money |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:15:32 +0100, congokid
wrote: True. Though at least they're fit enough to leave the scene without having to go straight to hospital. Even if they did later go to hospital, they'd likely tell a story about what happened rather than have to pay for treatment as is normally the case in a road accident (why?). Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
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Bus driver complaint and OYBike
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
... Fact is, the "cyclists don't pay" argument is a cager troll, whoever posts it :-) smiley noted Still don't know what a cager is. Not sure it's a troll if posted to uk.transport.london (which I did) - maybe it would be on uk.rec.cycling To me, it's a fair and just observation. Ian |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:49:54 +0100, Keith Willoughby
wrote in message : You made a point of noting he was doing 8 mph on a "gas-pipe Raleigh". I think it would be a shame if we gave the impression that people who do 8 MPH on gas-pipe Raleighs somehow didn't belong on the road just because they delay your journey. They can delay me (and the rest of the queue) once, no problem. But having delayed us, and having finally been passed, going to the front of the queue at the next stop, particularly by breaking the law, is downright ignorant. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:54:18 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote in message : Still don't know what a cager is. It's a motorcyclists' term for car drivers, specifically those whose attitude is defined by the fact that they are surrounded by a strong steel cage. To me, it's a fair and just observation. And to us it's a troll, and a hoary old one at that :-) Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
They can delay me (and the rest of the queue) once, no problem. But having delayed us, and having finally been passed, going to the front of the queue at the next stop, particularly by breaking the law, is downright ignorant. So you are against ASLs for cyclists then? Having been passed they should wait their place in the queue at the next lights. Tony |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:22:36 +0100, Tony Raven
wrote in message : They can delay me (and the rest of the queue) once, no problem. But having delayed us, and having finally been passed, going to the front of the queue at the next stop, particularly by breaking the law, is downright ignorant. So you are against ASLs for cyclists then? Having been passed they should wait their place in the queue at the next lights. Actually I usually wait my turn at lights, but it is rarely difficult for a car to pass a cyclist. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
"Ian F." wrote in
: "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message ... Fact is, the "cyclists don't pay" argument is a cager troll, whoever posts it :-) smiley noted Still don't know what a cager is. Someone who sits in a cage. To me, it's a fair and just observation. You missed off irrelevant. -- Chris |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
in message , Keith Willoughby
') wrote: Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:58:25 +0100, Keith Willoughby wrote in message : , only to have him wobble straight past, across a red light and into the next section ahead of the line. This bit was the only thing he did wrong. It was the thing he did wrong. You made a point of noting he was doing 8 mph on a "gas-pipe Raleigh". I think it would be a shame if we gave the impression that people who do 8 MPH on gas-pipe Raleighs somehow didn't belong on the road just because they delay your journey. People who jump lights don't belong on the road whether with a gas pipe Raleigh of an all-carbon Colnago. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; If Python is executable pseudocode, ;; then Perl is executable line noise -- seen on Slashdot. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Ian F. ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : I've learned, today, the difference between Real Cyclists and People On Bikes. I knew nothing about that before. Thanks. It's very similar to the difference between people who know how to drive, and those who just have a driving licence and a car. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
People on bikes are "real cyclists" just different to us "bike freaks"
SW "Adrian" wrote in message . 1.4... Ian F. ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : I've learned, today, the difference between Real Cyclists and People On Bikes. I knew nothing about that before. Thanks. It's very similar to the difference between people who know how to drive, and those who just have a driving licence and a car. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:00:39 +0100, "Paul Weaver"
wrote: Riding my rather groovy OYbike (details to follow) up wood lane at 18:20 this evening, passed dozens of cars, vans, lorries, no problem, then, just south of TVC, a double decker bus was blocking the lane. I peers arround the right but there was no way I was going to chance riding on the outside of the traffic facing those vehicles. Had to get off and walk past the bus on the pavement. The bus was a 220, W reg, possibly W9#XXX. When confronted his response was "**** you". Who can I complain to to ensure he loses his job, or at the bery least is forced to ride a bike for 50 miles arround London. Alternatively, who can I complain to about all the ****s on bikes who think that red lights - particularly those at pedestrian crossing - somehow don't count for them? Especially annoying are the ones who think they're entitled to shout abuse at the pedestrians they have to swerve round them because they're already half way across the road. Funny, that, isn't it? Pedestrians having the temerity to cross a road when the lights are in their favour, just because to knobend-in-lycra is too impatient to obey the red and wait a few seconds. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:40:27 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:41:27 GMT, (Nick Cooper) wrote in message : who can I complain to about all the ****s on bikes who think that red lights - particularly those at pedestrian crossing - somehow don't count for them? You can complain to uk.tosspot, who will greet you as a long-lost brother. They think the fact that "yoofs" on bikes commit offences justifies I don't recall putting the sort of cyclist I was complaining about into any particular age bracket. In fact, my own observations tell me that the most "serious"-looking of cyclists are - if anything - worse. whatever behaviour they see fit to inflict on those unlucky enough to have to share the road with them, and the disparity in danger posed by cyclists and motorists is of no relevance. I could ask you to elaborate on the huge supposition you seem to have made here, but you've already dug yourself into too deep a hole as it is. Alternatively you could consider to what extent the relative seriousness of your pet hate Please justify use of phrase "pet hate". and the homicidal bus driver might be informed by the fact the fact that the bus driver is trained to a higher standard than most road users, is entrusted with the safety of multiple occupants of his vehicle, is driving a large and heavy vehicle and is notionally a professional driver paid to drive. His company has a duty of care to those with whom their drivers share the roads. So that excuses crap cyclists, does it? -- May contain traces of irony. But clearly not much coherency.... -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
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Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Nick Cooper wrote:
Please justify use of phrase "pet hate". Your comments were an irrelevant tangent to the discussion. d. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
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Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Monkey Hanger wrote:
(Nick Cooper) wrote in : snip Alternatively, who can I complain to about all the ****s on bikes who think that red lights - particularly those at pedestrian crossing - somehow don't count for them? You could try the police? Especially annoying are the ones who think they're entitled to shout abuse at the pedestrians they have to swerve round them because they're already half way across the road. Funny, that, isn't it? Pedestrians having the temerity to cross a road when the lights are in their favour, just because to knobend-in-lycra is too impatient to obey the red and wait a few seconds. You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that uk.rec.cycling exists to defend these idiots. It doesn't. Most cyclists on this group deplore that kind of behaviour. Maybe some of the denizens of uk.transport.london could comment on whether or not they think this behaviour is defensible? One point that came out of the previous discussion on this thread (which I thought had quietly died) was the distinction between real cyclists and the Persons on Bikes (POBs) who give cycling a bad name. I found it encouraging that uk.rec.cycling denizens made that distinction. I think most people on u.t.l would agree that the crass behaviour that Nick Cooper described is not defensible. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:49:16 +0100, Jon Senior
jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk wrote: Nick Cooper opined the following... I don't recall putting the sort of cyclist I was complaining about into any particular age bracket. In fact, my own observations tell me that the most "serious"-looking of cyclists are - if anything - worse. Define "serious"-looking! The ones I see tend to be yoofs on cheap full- sus MTBs, and cycle couriers (Who are basically trying to shorten their lifespan!). So that excuses crap cyclists, does it? No. But it does make for an interesting comparison. A crap cyclist is liable to end up dead and probably scratch someone's paintwork. A crap car driver is liable to end up killing someone. A crap bus driver (Or driver of similarly sized vehicle) is liable to kill a great many people and cause vast amounts of damage. Yeah, well having seen speeding cyclists jumping reds at crossings and coming within a hair's bredth of sending OAPs flying, I'll reserve judgement on that one. It's all about proportion. Indeed. Whinging cyclists should be aware that not all of their bretheren are white-clad angels-on-wheels. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
"Nick Cooper" wrote in message ... Alternatively, who can I complain to about all the ****s on bikes who think that red lights - particularly those at pedestrian crossing - somehow don't count for them? Especially annoying are the ones who think they're entitled to shout abuse at the pedestrians they have to swerve round them because they're already half way across the road. Funny, that, isn't it? Pedestrians having the temerity to cross a road when the lights are in their favour, just because to knobend-in-lycra is too impatient to obey the red and wait a few seconds. A few months ago I saw what this can lead to. A lycra clad cyclist went flying around the roundabout at Trafalgar Square at a good 30mph, and turned down Whitehall going straight through the red light, and straight into a woman crossing the road. |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message ... On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:41:27 GMT, Alternatively you could consider to what extent the relative seriousness of your pet hate and the homicidal bus driver might be "Homicidal bus driver"???? All he did was block a cycle lane! |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Nick Cooper wrote:
Yeah, well having seen speeding cyclists jumping reds at crossings and coming within a hair's bredth of sending OAPs flying, I'll reserve judgement on that one. As has been said here before, very few here would condone that sort of behaviour irrespective of the fact that your over dramatic description seems to lead to very very few accidents and injuries every year Indeed. Whinging cyclists should be aware that not all of their bretheren are white-clad angels-on-wheels. Were you making a point or just wanting an excuse for an attack? Tony |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
Spicknspan wrote:
A few months ago I saw what this can lead to. A lycra clad cyclist went flying around the roundabout at Trafalgar Square at a good 30mph, and turned down Whitehall going straight through the red light, and straight into a woman crossing the road. It doesn't excuse bad behaviour like that but its interesting you have to delve back several months to come up with an example, which, knowing the complex junction to turn into Whitehall from Trafalgar Sq is rather improbable. I am sure the London cycling contingent can give you daily examples of cyclists becoming the victims of bad driving and pedestrians stepping out without looking. FWIW 30mph seems to be the norm for all traffic round other parts of Trafalgar square when it gets the opportunity. Tony |
Bus driver complaint and OYBike
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Bus driver complaint and OYBike
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