"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Wapping ornamental canal

!!!

Why do I imagine that the ornament would be a shopping trolley?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:33:39 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

I'm trying to visualise the situation but I'm a bit confused: if the
cycle lane is contraflow but you were using the road, weren't you
travelling in the opposite direction to the cycle lane?

The cycle lane is bidirectional; sorry, i didn't explain that clearly.
This is the cycle lane along Tavistock Place, in case you know it; i was
heading west. The road looks like this:

---------------
---------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
===============

Where - denotes cycle lane, = denotes main lane, and X denotes a physical
barrier (a sort of free-standing kerb). I'd come in from the east, where
the road's bidirectional and there there's a normal cycle lane on each
side; thus, i was at the left edge of the road. The normal cycle lanes
end, and the bidirectional segregated lane begins, when the road becomes
one-way (where it crosses Woburn Place?), but it's a little tricky to get
into the segregated lane there, because it involves crossing the stream of
traffic, plus worrying about the traffic coming in from the north and
south. And i keep forgetting it's there. Anyway, i find it easier to stay
in the main lane, since my turn, off on the right to Gordon St further on,
has a filter lane.

Hmm. I might have got some of that wrong, since the road's bidirectional
where my turn is, which would mean the one-way stretch is only a couple of
hundred metres long. There's definitely a westbound main lane on the south
side the whole way, and an eastbound cycle lane on the north side the
whole way!

This cycle route is part of what started out as the Seven Stations
Link (http://www.greengas.u-net.com/SevenStns.html), and is now the
Stations Circular Route (London Cycle Network Route 0 -- yes, zero!).
It is very much work-in-progress.

(Note: in these comments, I have turned everything about 40 degrees
clockwise, to avoid saying, for example, south-eastish where I have
put south. To follow my ramblings, refer to
http://wwww.streetmap.co.uk, search for Tavistock Place (London
Street), select the WC1 item and (optionally) click on Large Map.)

To the west of Woburn Place (Gordon Square south side), there is the
bidirectional cycle lane mentioned, and to the east (Tavistock Place)
is the standard layout. However, Camden are about to start extending
the bidirectional lane along the north side of Tavistock Place, which
would mean losing the cycle lane on the south side (for road width
reasons).

The fun bit comes at the next crossroads to the east, at the junction
of Tavistock Place, Hunter Street and Judd Street, where the cycle
lane will go in a straight line (the road dog-legs here), ending on
the *south* side of Tavistock Place / Regent Square / Sidmouth Street.

Anyway, if you want truly strange cycle lanes, try the back of the British
Museum: given the task of fitting a cycle lane heading west in with a
two-lane one-way street heading east (which, incidentally, is mostly used
by coaches), the road chaps decided that the best place for it was IN
BETWEEN the two lanes of traffic! Getting into that lane in the first
place is an adventure in itself.

It's not too difficult, apart from the sharp curves involved. From
Russell Square, keep on the south side of the triangle at the junction
with Montague Street, bear right then turn left into Montague Place
(the road behind the British Museum). Putting the cycle lane in the
middle keeps you away from coach passengers to and from the British
Museum.

It is interesting to come down Malet Street to the west end of
Montague Place. The last 75 yards or so are one-way southbound (with a
contraflow cycle lane), and traffic for the coach stops and for Gower
Street must keep to the right-hand side of the road. The bollard on
the centre island (where the Montague Place cycle lane ends) still
bears a keep-left symbol. This means coach drivers, etc, regularly
break the law ...

Regards,

The Mad Cyclist

--
Clive R Robertson -- AS/400 Programmer.

Webmaster of http://www.osterleypark.org.uk/ -- this describes
a beautiful National Trust property in West London.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 23:12:36 +0100 someone who may be Chris Davies
wrote this:-

A lot of practises are
institutionalised. To give an example, most couriers get paid by the
number of drops they make. If any driver consistently took longer to make
a journey than the rest of his colleagues, he would in all likelihood lose
his job.

Then they are taking part in a conspiracy with their employer to
break the law.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:02:17 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
wrote this:-

You mean like the cyclist killed on Blackfriars Bridge in May
http://www.blagged.pwp.blueyonder.co...ackfriars.html

The second photograph shows what looks like the most stupid idea
some road official has had in a long time.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Tom Anderson writes:

big snip
conflow (or whatever the opposite of contraflow is - Sandinistaflow?),

Very good.

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004, Clive R Robertson wrote:

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:33:39 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

I'm trying to visualise the situation but I'm a bit confused: if the
cycle lane is contraflow but you were using the road, weren't you
travelling in the opposite direction to the cycle lane?

The cycle lane is bidirectional; sorry, i didn't explain that clearly.
This is the cycle lane along Tavistock Place, in case you know it; i was
heading west. The road looks like this:

---------------
---------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
===============

Oops. I paid a bit more attention last night, and you know what? There's
no one-way bit; it's bidirectional throughout. I don't know why i thought
otherwise - perhaps because there's never much traffic coming against me
in the mornings!

To the west of Woburn Place (Gordon Square south side), there is the
bidirectional cycle lane mentioned, and to the east (Tavistock Place) is
the standard layout. However, Camden are about to start extending the
bidirectional lane along the north side of Tavistock Place, which would
mean losing the cycle lane on the south side (for road width reasons).

This i don't mind - once you're on the bidirectional lane, it's okay (as
long as there isn't too much bike traffic coming against you), and it is
segregated, and (i think) benefits from bike lights at the pedestrian
crossings.

The fun bit comes at the next crossroads to the east, at the junction of
Tavistock Place, Hunter Street and Judd Street, where the cycle lane
will go in a straight line (the road dog-legs here), ending on the
*south* side of Tavistock Place / Regent Square / Sidmouth Street.

People will die there. I'm moving to Holloway in a couple of weeks - maybe
i can find a route which avoids it :-/.

Anyway, if you want truly strange cycle lanes, try the back of the British
Museum: given the task of fitting a cycle lane heading west in with a
two-lane one-way street heading east (which, incidentally, is mostly used
by coaches), the road chaps decided that the best place for it was IN
BETWEEN the two lanes of traffic! Getting into that lane in the first
place is an adventure in itself.

It's not too difficult, apart from the sharp curves involved. From
Russell Square, keep on the south side of the triangle at the junction
with Montague Street, bear right then turn left into Montague Place (the
road behind the British Museum). Putting the cycle lane in the middle
keeps you away from coach passengers to and from the British Museum.

Oops, sorry, i was thinking about coming from the east - where, IIRC, you
have to leave a contraflow lane along the easternmost end of Montague
Place and dive across the oncoming traffic to get into the lane.

It is interesting to come down Malet Street to the west end of Montague
Place. The last 75 yards or so are one-way southbound (with a contraflow
cycle lane), and traffic for the coach stops and for Gower Street must
keep to the right-hand side of the road. The bollard on the centre
island (where the Montague Place cycle lane ends) still bears a
keep-left symbol. This means coach drivers, etc, regularly break the law
...

Eek. Surely it would be simple just to cover it up? Hang on, there must be
some bin-bags around here ...

tom

--
When I see a man on a bicycle I have hope for the human race. -- H. G. Wells

Sounds like it was stopped in a mandatory bike lane. A very
common
offence.

Aren't bike lanes also frequently bus lanes?

Not in this case.

Was there somewhere else for the bus to be? Sounds like you had the
pavement - what did the bus have?

Actually, the bike didn't have the option of the pavement - if he had
cycled
on the pavement he would have been liable for a £30 fixed penalty for
cycling on the footway. Since the road in question is in a borough
that has
been targetting this offence
http://www.met.police.uk/hammersmithandfulham/crime_prevention.htm,
I don't see why the cyclist should be encouraged
to break the law because the bus driver (a 'professional' driver)
could not
be bothered to obey the law.


Matt Ashby

On 3 Sep 2004, Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

Tom Anderson writes:

big snip
conflow (or whatever the opposite of contraflow is - Sandinistaflow?),

Very good.

Thank you. I'm so sharp i could cut myself.

tom

--
If it ain't Alberta, it ain't beef.

In article , John Rowland
wrote:
This is why bus lane cameras should only be fitted to the front
of buses and manually operated by the driver - because if your
brief foray into a bus lane doesn't hold a bus up, you shouldn't
be penalised.

I disagree. There are several places round here where you can come up
to a junction and want to turn left, but you have a bus lane to your
left as you approach. Cars who breach the bus lane make it harder at
best and dangerous at worst for those who follow the restriction.

There's also the consideration that where you have one or two lanes +
bus lane leading up to a flow limited junction those who are using
the bus lane are invariably doing so to queue jump. Thus their
pushing in may mean that those who are law abiding have to wait for
the next green light. Case for an ASBO!

In short I'd enforce bus lanes far more rigourously than minor speed
excesses, with the caveat that the signing on many of them needs
improving. Except that it would probably cost too much, I would mark
them with runway style lane lights which were on when the lane was in
operation.

--
Tony Bryer

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:41:55 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 23:12:36 +0100 someone who may be Chris Davies
wrote this:-

A lot of practises are
institutionalised. To give an example, most couriers get paid by the
number of drops they make. If any driver consistently took longer to
make
a journey than the rest of his colleagues, he would in all likelihood
lose
his job.

Then they are taking part in a conspiracy with their employer to
break the law.



Let's take this up another level. What do you think would happen to the
company that took longer and cost more for each drop? If it is a
conspiracy, we are all part of it, not just individual companies.

I bought a stereo off ebay last week, and paid £10 to the seller to have
it delivered from Watford to Reading. It was done the next day. How far is
that, 70 miles? Assuming the seller charged £2 for packing materials
(there were a lot in the package) that's £8. Assuming you have a courier
firm, after you've paid for a fleet of vans, diesel and wages how much
will be left over? And that's just an example off the top of my head. We
are always happy to pay less money, hence this "conspiracy" is kept going.

--
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