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#221
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"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ... On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:24:37 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: On 21 Oct 2004 13:03:50 -0700, (Nick Cooper 625) wrote in message : Obviously we're back to your 11th Commandment again: "Thous shalt not criticise cyclists." Is the wrong answer. You started this subthread by advancing the bad behaviour of cyclists as some kind of defence or excuse for the bad behaviour of bus drivers. yawn No I didn't. Why should I? Stop doggedly sticking to you own misassumption. It's a pretty common misassumption. Why didn't you even bother to change the thread title? clive |
#222
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:55:45 +0100, "Clive George"
wrote: "Nick Cooper" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:24:37 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote: On 21 Oct 2004 13:03:50 -0700, (Nick Cooper 625) wrote in message : Obviously we're back to your 11th Commandment again: "Thous shalt not criticise cyclists." Is the wrong answer. You started this subthread by advancing the bad behaviour of cyclists as some kind of defence or excuse for the bad behaviour of bus drivers. yawn No I didn't. Why should I? Stop doggedly sticking to you own misassumption. It's a pretty common misassumption. Which says far more about the over-sensitivity of those making it. Just because five people jump to the same false conclusion, it doesn't mean it is no longer false. Why didn't you even bother to change the thread title? Perhaps because at that stage I didn't even remotely consider such an irrationally over-defensive reaction. It was just a tangential observation I would have been surprised had it resulted in more than half a dozen follow-ups. In fact, it's been a bit like a doctor tapping a patient's knee, only for the whole body to go into spasm. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
#223
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On 22 Oct 2004 16:56:37 GMT, Monkey Hanger wrote:
(Nick Cooper 625) wrote in . com: "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message . .. So once again, any rational measure of risk leaves tackling cyclists well down on the "if we get around to it" pile. Again we come back to your weird "worst first" set of priorities.... Can you justify *not* setting your priorities this way? So you would advocate, say, stopping funding on all types of medical research bar that into cancer, and concentrate entirely on that? -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
#224
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:07:51 GMT, Nick Cooper wrote: I'd ask you to identify this mythical statement that "cyclists are as bad," Ooh, ooh, I know this one! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:13:11 GMT However, I see just as many cyclists behaving like aresholes as car/van/lorry drivers, That appears to be by you in a direct ancestor of this post. Do you deny you said it? Actually, yes because what I disputed (somewhat imperfectly) was Clive's assertion that, "it is unreasonable to excuse bad bus drivers by claiming that cyclists are as bad." I certainly made an observation on the conduct of some cyclists, but this was never an explicit or implicit "excuse" for bus drivers or anyone else. The "as bad" bit isn't the issue, the supposed "excuse" bit is. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
#225
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#226
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#227
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On Sat, 23 Oct, Nick Cooper wrote
(or did he? maybe he'll shortly deny it): On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:07:51 GMT, Nick Cooper wrote: I'd ask you to identify this mythical statement that "cyclists are as bad," Ooh, ooh, I know this one! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:13:11 GMT However, I see just as many cyclists behaving like aresholes as car/van/lorry drivers, That appears to be by you in a direct ancestor of this post. Do you deny you said it? Actually, yes You deny you said what I quoted? Who did, and why do you let them use your identity to post things you don't mean? because what I disputed (somewhat imperfectly) was Clive's assertion that, "it is unreasonable to excuse bad bus drivers by claiming that cyclists are as bad." I certainly made an observation on the conduct of some cyclists, but this was never an explicit or implicit "excuse" for bus drivers or anyone else. The "as bad" bit isn't the issue, the supposed "excuse" bit is. So what you're saying is that you did say that cyclists are as bad, and somehow accidently in all the numerous times you denied saying that cyclists were as bad, you were actually denying something different, just electing not to say what you were denying, but rather expecting us to work out what you actually intending denying (but didn't). That's alright then, why didn't I think of that. Silly of me, assuming you meant what you said. regards, Ian SMith -- |\ /| no .sig |o o| |/ \| |
#228
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"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ... It's a pretty common misassumption. Which says far more about the over-sensitivity of those making it. Just because five people jump to the same false conclusion, it doesn't mean it is no longer false. Why didn't you even bother to change the thread title? Perhaps because at that stage I didn't even remotely consider such an irrationally over-defensive reaction. It was just a tangential observation I would have been surprised had it resulted in more than half a dozen follow-ups. In fact, it's been a bit like a doctor tapping a patient's knee, only for the whole body to go into spasm. Well now you know - whining about cyclist's behaviour on u.r.c will result in robust rebuttals, because we're so used to people attempting to justify motorist's bad behaviour by saying cyclists are as bad. This will happen whether or not you mean to. clive |
#229
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:16:47 +0100, "Clive George"
wrote: "Nick Cooper" wrote in message ... It's a pretty common misassumption. Which says far more about the over-sensitivity of those making it. Just because five people jump to the same false conclusion, it doesn't mean it is no longer false. Why didn't you even bother to change the thread title? Perhaps because at that stage I didn't even remotely consider such an irrationally over-defensive reaction. It was just a tangential observation I would have been surprised had it resulted in more than half a dozen follow-ups. In fact, it's been a bit like a doctor tapping a patient's knee, only for the whole body to go into spasm. Well now you know - whining about cyclist's behaviour on u.r.c will result in robust rebuttals, because we're so used to people attempting to justify motorist's bad behaviour by saying cyclists are as bad. This will happen whether or not you mean to. You see, this is the problem. I made one throwaway comment/ observation and then had to elaborate or defend myself from a bunch of over-sensitive and trigger-happy cyclists who leapt spectacularly to the wrong conclusion about what I actually said, and you characterise it as "whining"? Yeah, right.... -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
#230
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:06:52 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct, Nick Cooper wrote (or did he? maybe he'll shortly deny it): On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith wrote: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:07:51 GMT, Nick Cooper wrote: I'd ask you to identify this mythical statement that "cyclists are as bad," Ooh, ooh, I know this one! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:13:11 GMT However, I see just as many cyclists behaving like aresholes as car/van/lorry drivers, That appears to be by you in a direct ancestor of this post. Do you deny you said it? Actually, yes You deny you said what I quoted? No, I deny that it was an "excuse" for bad drivers, which is the way various posters here have tried to misrepresent it. because what I disputed (somewhat imperfectly) was Clive's assertion that, "it is unreasonable to excuse bad bus drivers by claiming that cyclists are as bad." I certainly made an observation on the conduct of some cyclists, but this was never an explicit or implicit "excuse" for bus drivers or anyone else. The "as bad" bit isn't the issue, the supposed "excuse" bit is. So what you're saying is that you did say that cyclists are as bad, and somehow accidently in all the numerous times you denied saying that cyclists were as bad, you were actually denying something different, just electing not to say what you were denying, but rather expecting us to work out what you actually intending denying (but didn't). I think you should go back and read what actually read what I said. Guy has repeatedly made claims such as the following: Please jsutify the use of illegal cyclist behaviour to excuse illegal and potentially lethal bus driver behaviour. So you feel it's perfectly acceptable to use the behaviour of crap cyclists to excuse that of crap drivers, but not vice-versa? Fascinating. And yet you seek to prosecute cyclists for the tiny risk they pose, without at the same time commenting on the equally commonplace and far more dangerous lawbreaking of motorised road users. Is the wrong answer. You started this subthread by advancing the bad behaviour of cyclists as some kind of defence or excuse for the bad behaviour of bus drivers. Of course, this isn't the limits of Guy's fantasy accusations: Read it again. These are deaths /on the footway/. You have asserted that large numbers of cyclists ride on the footway for much of their journey... Which I never said anywhere! I made ten posts in this thread before Clive claimed: Fundamentally, a bad cyclist would have to try incredibly hard to be more dangerous than a bad bus driver, so it is unreasonable to excuse bad bus drivers by claiming that cyclists are as bad. Which is what the comment that sparked all this nasty disagreement was doing. My response was badly worded, as I have acknowledged that (twice). However, the fact remains that I have _never_ anywhere used the behaviour or bad cyclists as an "excuse" for bad drivers. That's what I'm denying I ever said, and the fact that none of you lot can quote such a statement proves my point. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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