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Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone
else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich, using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7, the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won the jackpot at Las Vegas! The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins" (or something very similar to that). So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the "Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest of my coins in a second batch. I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full, because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate batches. Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was this feature designed into the system in the first place? Graham |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
"Graham Hick" wrote in message om... This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich, using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7, the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won the jackpot at Las Vegas! The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins" (or something very similar to that). So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the "Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest of my coins in a second batch. I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full, because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate batches. Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was this feature designed into the system in the first place? Graham The coins you insert don't go straight to the main coin box - they all have to be stored temporarily somewhere so that your own coins can all be rejected back to you if something goes wrong. James |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Graham Hick wrote:
This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich, using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7, the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won the jackpot at Las Vegas! The message on the screen said "You have used too many coins" (or something very similar to that). So, I started again, but about half way through, pressed the "Finished" button, updated my card, and then added the rest of my coins in a second batch. I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to terminate the transaction. Surely they should be pleased that I'm stocking up the machine's supply of small change? I wasn't causing a delay since I had deliberately waited till my last journey of the day before doing this. The coin box wasn't full, because it let me add all my coins when I tried it in 2 separate batches. But that's the coin box that holds all the coins from completed transactions. There must also be a smaller box that temporarily holds the coins from one transaction so that they can be returned if, for example, the user cancels the transaction before completion. I guess your attempt to feed £7+ of small change filled up this smaller box. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Graham Hick wrote:
This happened to me last night and I was wondering if anyone else had come across it. I was topping up my Oyster pre-pay card at the touch-screen ticket machine at North Greenwich, using up all the small change in my wallet. After about £7, the machine closed the coin slot, and threw all my coins back into the rejected coins/change tray. It sounded like I'd won the jackpot at Las Vegas! .... Not a major grumble, but a bit of a "head scratcher" - why was this feature designed into the system in the first place? Graham A pure guess, but maybe it has to keep the coins in a holding area in case you press cancel, and you'd filled it up? Colin McKenzie |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
"Richard J." wrote in message ...
But that's the coin box that holds all the coins from completed transactions. There must also be a smaller box that temporarily holds the coins from one transaction so that they can be returned if, for example, the user cancels the transaction before completion. I guess your attempt to feed £7+ of small change filled up this smaller box. I suddenly realised that's probably what it was, not long after I posted the question (isn't that always the way?). Out of interest, does it do the same thing with notes? Or if you cancel after putting a note in, do you get the equivalent back in random small change? If so, it must get the change from somewhere... |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , Graham
Hick writes I am at a loss to explain why "too many coins" is a reason to terminate the transaction. The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins in receipt for a 7 pound item). -- Paul Terry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
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Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also
remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins in receipt for a 7 pound item). Drifting off topic here... It is true that a vendor would not have to accept the coinage but it isn't anything to do with legal tender. He doesn't have to accept 7 one pound coins to pay for a 7 pound item if he doesn't want to even though it is legal tender in the UK. Legal tender is a means of payment that should not be refused by a creditor to settle a debt. If you are buying a ticket, or paying for an item in a shop there is normally no debt involved. On the other hand if, for example, you are eating in a restaurant where you are billed at the end of your meal then a debt is involved and legal tender should be accepted in settlement. |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , at 19:38:01 on Tue, 7 Sep
2004, Paul Terry remarked: The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins in receipt for a 7 pound item). Except the legal tender rules apply only to settling debts, not to purchases in vending machines. -- Roland Perry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , Roland
Perry writes In message , at 19:38:01 on Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Paul Terry remarked: The technical explanations offered are the most likely, but also remember that if you inserted a lot of coinage you may have exceeded the limit on legal tender (eg a vendor is not obliged to accept 70 10p coins in receipt for a 7 pound item). Except the legal tender rules apply only to settling debts, not to purchases in vending machines. That is correct. But as Graham pointed out, a vendor is free to accept or refuse coinage as he or she wishes. In the lack of any other guidelines I have known several who use "legal tender" as their own chosen standard, simply to save argument (and the annoyance of carrying several kilos of change to the bank). However, as I wrote, the capacity of the coin holding mechanism is more likely to be the explanation. -- Paul Terry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , at 12:36:07 on Wed, 8 Sep
2004, Paul Terry remarked: a vendor is free to accept or refuse coinage as he or she wishes. In the lack of any other guidelines I have known several who use "legal tender" as their own chosen standard, simply to save argument (and the annoyance of carrying several kilos of change to the bank). If specified in advance (several bus companies will not give change, for example, but I don't think I've ever seen one that specified how much change was unacceptable). However, as I wrote, the capacity of the coin holding mechanism is more likely to be the explanation. In this case, yes. -- Roland Perry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message .uk... In message , at 12:36:07 on Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Paul Terry remarked: a vendor is free to accept or refuse coinage as he or she wishes. In the lack of any other guidelines I have known several who use "legal tender" as their own chosen standard, simply to save argument (and the annoyance of carrying several kilos of change to the bank). If specified in advance (several bus companies will not give change, for example, but I don't think I've ever seen one that specified how much change was unacceptable). On more than one occasion I've seen people pay on a 'coins in the box' bus totally in copper. I don't know if they do it as some sort of protest or if they're a sandwich short of a picnic? tim |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
tim wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message .uk... In message , at 12:36:07 on Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Paul Terry remarked: a vendor is free to accept or refuse coinage as he or she wishes. In the lack of any other guidelines I have known several who use "legal tender" as their own chosen standard, simply to save argument (and the annoyance of carrying several kilos of change to the bank). If specified in advance (several bus companies will not give change, for example, but I don't think I've ever seen one that specified how much change was unacceptable). On more than one occasion I've seen people pay on a 'coins in the box' bus totally in copper. I don't know if they do it as some sort of protest or if they're a sandwich short of a picnic? A lot of people stick all their small change in a jar - the fact that nobody physically counts the change in these fare boxes seems a good thing to do, i.e. you get rid of the change without causing anyone the hassle of counting it. |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Graham J wrote:
Legal tender is a means of payment that should not be refused by a creditor to settle a debt. If you are buying a ticket, or paying for an item in a shop there is normally no debt involved. On the other hand if, for example, you are eating in a restaurant where you are billed at the end of your meal then a debt is involved and legal tender should be accepted in settlement. This explains why so few vending machines these days accept coppers to pay for an item that you don't yet have. The vendor (in this case, a machine operating on behalf of the vendor) does not have to serve anyone. Many machines do not even show how much of any item they have in stock, if any, before money is inserted. If they do dispense anything before accepting payment, the machine designer is probably one screw short of a box; and they would have to honour the legal tender rules, and accept small change. On the bright side, for those of you wishing to rid yourself of small change, those Cadbury machines on the underground do accept 1p and 2p coins, even if the confectionary they dispense costs considerably more than if you were to buy the same nutritious and energy packed item at a convenience store just outside the station. The Cadbury machines do not seem to use an escrow device, and have been known to return change different than the coins you insert. -- Simon Hewison |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , Simon Hewison
writes: Graham J wrote: Legal tender is a means of payment that should not be refused by a creditor to settle a debt. If you are buying a ticket, or paying for an item in a shop there is normally no debt involved. On the other hand if, for example, you are eating in a restaurant where you are billed at the end of your meal then a debt is involved and legal tender should be accepted in settlement. This explains why so few vending machines these days accept coppers to pay for an item that you don't yet have. The vendor (in this case, a machine operating on behalf of the vendor) does not have to serve anyone. Many machines do not even show how much of any item they have in stock, if any, before money is inserted. If they do dispense anything before accepting payment, the machine designer is probably one screw short of a box; and they would have to honour the legal tender rules, and accept small change. On the bright side, for those of you wishing to rid yourself of small change, those Cadbury machines on the underground do accept 1p and 2p coins, even if the confectionary they dispense costs considerably more than if you were to buy the same nutritious and energy packed item at a convenience store just outside the station. The Cadbury machines do not seem to use an escrow device, and have been known to return change different than the coins you insert. Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. -- Jim Crowther "It's MY computer" (tm SMG) Always learning. |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
"Jim Crowther" wrote in
message Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. And charge you 7½% for the privilege of using them. Bargain! NOT!!!! |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
"Bob Wood" typed
"Jim Crowther" wrote in message Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. And charge you 7½% for the privilege of using them. Bargain! NOT!!!! Quite! I'm always amazed anyone is lazy and stupid enough to use these! At least the chocolate machines don't take a huge cut and those nice people at Cadbury's will refund you generously if the machine swallows your dosh. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , Helen Deborah
Vecht writes "Bob Wood" typed "Jim Crowther" wrote in message Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. And charge you 7½% for the privilege of using them. Bargain! NOT!!!! Quite! I'm always amazed anyone is lazy and stupid enough to use these! At least the chocolate machines don't take a huge cut and those nice people at Cadbury's will refund you generously if the machine swallows your dosh. The machines charge you 50p for a chocolate bar you can buy for 45p anywhere else... -- Kat |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , at 00:51:54 on
Tue, 14 Sep 2004, Jim Crowther remarked: Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. Having deducted a commission, I believe. -- Roland Perry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Jim Crowther wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 14 Sep 2004:
Also worth noting, some Sainsbury supermarkets (and I'm sure other places) have machines that will take any amount of small change, to be either credited to an account, or paid back in larger denomination coins/notes. Best bet is to be married to the Church treasurer who never minds changing shedloads of pennies on a Sunday night! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 11 September 2004 |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:47:21 +0100, "Bob Wood"
wrote: And charge you 7½% for the privilege of using them. Bargain! NOT!!!! Indeed. Seeing as (assuming you bag it up) banks will not object to you paying in the kind of quantity of coins that your average wallet contains, there seems no sense at all in using these and every sense in paying them into the bank instead. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:47:21 +0100, "Bob Wood" wrote: And charge you 7½% for the privilege of using them. Bargain! NOT!!!! Indeed. Seeing as (assuming you bag it up) banks will not object to you paying in the kind of quantity of coins that your average wallet contains, there seems no sense at all in using these and every sense in paying them into the bank instead. As long as you use your own bank, they won't object to large quantities of coins - much larger than the average wallet's worth! I used to work as a bank cashier, and some people brought in a *lot* of small change. It isn't really a problem as long as it's bagged up, as it can be checked just by weight. We refused large quantities of unsorted change as it takes far too long to count. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Indeed. Seeing as (assuming you bag it up) banks will not object to
you paying in the kind of quantity of coins that your average wallet contains, there seems no sense at all in using these and every sense in paying them into the bank instead. That rather depends on where the bank is surely? If you have to hop on a bus to go to the bank and back, or take the car and pay to park it, then you might find the 7.5% fee you pay at a supermarket you were going to anyway works out cheaper even for quite substantial amount of coinage. It also depends on the value you place on your time. You can pay much less than a quid for a bottle of beer in a supermarket or less than a quid in an off-licence if you buy enough. Yet you will pay well in excess of £2 in a pub. Does this mean it makes no sense to drink in pubs? You can buy six bottles of water for a quid in Poundland or pay 60p for the same brand at a kiosk on a train station? Does this mean it makes no sense to buy the water? Even with the chocolate vending machine example you are probably paying at least a 10% markup on a kiosk that might be yards away on a railway platform, or in shops just outside a station, and a whole lot more than that over supermarket prices. Does it make no sense to buy that? If you have a load of cash for a charity or something then you are going to take the bank option as you want every last penny, if it is your own money then you may feel the 7.5% charge is the better deal for you. |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Graham J wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 15 Sep 2004:
That rather depends on where the bank is surely? If you have to hop on a bus to go to the bank and back, or take the car and pay to park it, then you might find the 7.5% fee you pay at a supermarket you were going to anyway works out cheaper even for quite substantial amount of coinage. It also depends on the value you place on your time. But if one was going to the bank anyway..... You can pay much less than a quid for a bottle of beer in a supermarket or less than a quid in an off-licence if you buy enough. Yet you will pay well in excess of £2 in a pub. Does this mean it makes no sense to drink in pubs? Depends how noisy and smoky the pub is! You can buy six bottles of water for a quid in Poundland or pay 60p for the same brand at a kiosk on a train station? Does this mean it makes no sense to buy the water? Yes, because if you had thought about it, you would have filled a bottle from the filtered tap at home, costing fractions of a penny. Even with the chocolate vending machine example you are probably paying at least a 10% markup on a kiosk that might be yards away on a railway platform, or in shops just outside a station, and a whole lot more than that over supermarket prices. Does it make no sense to buy that? Again, not really - more sense to buy in the supermarket and take in your lunch-box. Although given that we find it worth our while to drive to France to stock up on wine, beer, coffee and drinking-water..... as my ex-colleague said, "But there's a perfectly good supermarket just down the road!" -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 11 September 2004 |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
In message , Annabel Smyth
writes if you had thought about it, you would have filled a bottle from the filtered tap at home, costing fractions of a penny. (snip) Although given that we find it worth our while to drive to France to stock up on wine, beer, coffee and drinking-water... Do you not have a "filtered tap at home" then? :) -- Paul Terry |
Top up Oyster Prepay - "too many coins"?
Paul Terry wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 15 Sep 2004:
In message , Annabel Smyth writes if you had thought about it, you would have filled a bottle from the filtered tap at home, costing fractions of a penny. (snip) Although given that we find it worth our while to drive to France to stock up on wine, beer, coffee and drinking-water... Do you not have a "filtered tap at home" then? :) It doesn't run fizzy. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 11 September 2004 |
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