On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:57:11 +0100, "adrian"
wrote:

"A A" wrote in message
...

Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

....with all of the doors removed so it's still hop-on/hop-off?

With an open platform at the back?

"adrian" wrote in message
...
"A A" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone

I use the 73. I love the old buses, but was also mildly interested in
seeing
these new creatures cruising down Essex Road. I remain infuriated by
the
bunching and the slowness around Euston. I was basically open-minded
about
the change to bendybuses.

However, I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that my general state of
mind
has
improved this week. I don't want to overstate it, but on stepping off
a
bendybus I somehow just _feel better_ than when stepping off the old
ones.

All these years on the old buses, I've been forced into a crouching,
cowering position, holding myself to myself to avoid damaging myself
and
inconveniencing everyone else with my limbs and my height. I got on a
38
(old bus) just now and I felt completely hemmed in, almost
claustrophobic. I
wanted to get off.

On the new buses I can stand up straight, hold my head up, breathe
properly.
I feel stronger and more confident. OK now I'm sounding flaky, but
this
was
a completely unexpected by-product of the change.

Jim


Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think
most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of
the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

...with all of the doors removed so it's still hop-on/hop-off?

A routebender? A bendymaster?

With an open platform at the back?

How about just leaving the bendy bit off in the middle :-)

Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 8 Sep 2004:

Anyway, I personally would rather stand on the bus than, umm, stand at
the bus stop...

I can't understand why we are allowed to stand up on buses, when in a
car one must not only be seated, but have a safety belt into the
bargain. Who said buses were safer - if the driver has to stand on the
brakes, passengers go flying and can hurt themselves.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 8 Sep 2004:

Anyway, I personally would rather stand on the bus than, umm, stand at
the bus stop...

I can't understand why we are allowed to stand up on buses, when in a
car one must not only be seated, but have a safety belt into the
bargain. Who said buses were safer - if the driver has to stand on the
brakes, passengers go flying and can hurt themselves.

Perhaps this is because on a bus you're less likely to hit the windscreen -
or knock the person in front into it. If the bus breaks sharply and you're
standnig in the aisle, even if you're the only one standing so there isn't a
group preventing each other from falling, you may hurt yourself but you're
less likely to be killed than in a car.

Jonn

(Mait001) wrote in message ...
Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

I can't see any reason why there couldn't be double decked bendy buses
albeit the front section of the bus only (as I suspect though you could
articulate 2 decks it would be a bit hairy engineering wise).

B2003

Also, on a bus, there are grabrails to hold onto which *should* help in the
event of a sharp braking.

"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 8 Sep 2004:

Anyway, I personally would rather stand on the bus than, umm, stand at
the bus stop...

I can't understand why we are allowed to stand up on buses, when in a
car one must not only be seated, but have a safety belt into the
bargain. Who said buses were safer - if the driver has to stand on the
brakes, passengers go flying and can hurt themselves.

Perhaps this is because on a bus you're less likely to hit the
windscreen -
or knock the person in front into it. If the bus breaks sharply and you're
standnig in the aisle, even if you're the only one standing so there isn't
a
group preventing each other from falling, you may hurt yourself but you're
less likely to be killed than in a car.

Jonn

On 10 Sep 2004 08:14:46 -0700, (Boltar) wrote:

(Mait001) wrote in message ...
Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

I can't see any reason why there couldn't be double decked bendy buses
albeit the front section of the bus only (as I suspect though you could
articulate 2 decks it would be a bit hairy engineering wise).

There have been double deck bendy coaches produced by Neoplan for long
distance touring type holidays.

I think the main issue about double deck bendies would be that dwell
time at stops and termini would be much longer than with normal double
decks or single deck bendies. You then need far more vehicles to
maintain a given frequency or else the route has to become less
frequent. This is already the case to a limited extent with the bendy
bus conversions relative to double deck operation but that is more to do
with the fact that the same capacity can be provided with fewer buses
while not incurring longer dwell times. Part of TfL policy is to crush
more people into buses during the peaks as expansion of peak capacity
cannot really be afforded.

In another place a MD of one company that uses bendy buses in London
said very clearly that they had big advantages compared to say Hong Kong
style 12m double decks. One of big issues was over dwell time at stops -
particularly in busy places like Oxford Street where bus stop capacity /
occupancy is a key issue. While I understand the point he made I am not
100% convinced as big buses work in Hong Kong although given the very
high frequencies it is not uncommon to have for buses to queue to get
onto a stop.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:00:46 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

In another place a MD of one company that uses bendy buses in London
said very clearly that they had big advantages compared to say Hong Kong
style 12m double decks. One of big issues was over dwell time at stops -
particularly in busy places like Oxford Street where bus stop capacity /
occupancy is a key issue. While I understand the point he made I am not
100% convinced as big buses work in Hong Kong although given the very
high frequencies it is not uncommon to have for buses to queue to get
onto a stop.

The dwell-time problem is very obvious on a route like the 42 in
Manchester. Stagecoach operate (or did operate, they may now have
gone to Megabus) some very large ex-Hong Kong double-deckers on their
Magic Bus services. These were single-doored (not only that, but the
single door was very narrow), and so dwell times at stops were
measured in minutes rather than seconds, exacerbated by the need to
take fares on board. The loadings and typical short journeys mean
this route is crying out for cashless bendy operation (though you'd
need very good revenue protection!)

That said, long deckers *can* be operated on the European model - the
best style I've seen is Berlin's, where boarding is via the front door
and alighting via the rear - but with the rear door all the way to the
back and two staircases. These seem to manage a speed of operation
not dissimilar to a 3-doored bendy.

I don't think I'd go for a bendy decker, though. Large deckers work
better as 12m rigid vehicles, though these may be too long for
London's narrow streets. They're not the longest buses in Germany,
mind - Hamburg has a few 16m *rigid* Citaros with steering rear axles
- FirstGroup brought one over a while ago for a test, though they're
still not legal in this country.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain