Hi, all.

I was just wondering what was the layout of South Kensington and Gloucester
Road stations before track reorganisation?

Any diagrams available on the web anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

Nes.
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In article , Nestor Badudoy
writes
I was just wondering what was the layout of South Kensington and Gloucester
Road stations before track reorganisation?

Any diagrams available on the web anywhere?

Google Groups should have some ASCII diagrams I did a few years ago.

Basically the section was run as two separate lines, Circle on the
northern side and District on the southern, converging east of South
Ken. However, a cluster of eastbound Districts (including non-stops)
over the junction would prevent a westbound Circle getting through and
foul up the entire service.

The first change (27-28 July 1957) was to swap the central pair of
tracks. Stopping eastbound Districts used the eastbound Circle through
the two stations; non-stops used the track that had been the westbound
Circle. Now the point of conflict was where it is now, and westbound
Circles could sit at either station and let Districts past them.

The eastbound fast was taken out of use in October 1964 and disconnected
on 8th Jan 1967; the slow was slewed into its place at South Ken on the
same day. The westbound split was moved to the west end of South Ken on
30th March 1969.

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Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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Hi Clive,

Any chance you still have those ASCII diagrams - can't seem to find them on
Google groups.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Nes.
--
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reply to the group!
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"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , Nestor Badudoy
writes
I was just wondering what was the layout of South Kensington and
Gloucester
Road stations before track reorganisation?

Any diagrams available on the web anywhere?

Google Groups should have some ASCII diagrams I did a few years ago.

Basically the section was run as two separate lines, Circle on the
northern side and District on the southern, converging east of South
Ken. However, a cluster of eastbound Districts (including non-stops)
over the junction would prevent a westbound Circle getting through and
foul up the entire service.

The first change (27-28 July 1957) was to swap the central pair of
tracks. Stopping eastbound Districts used the eastbound Circle through
the two stations; non-stops used the track that had been the westbound
Circle. Now the point of conflict was where it is now, and westbound
Circles could sit at either station and let Districts past them.

The eastbound fast was taken out of use in October 1964 and disconnected
on 8th Jan 1967; the slow was slewed into its place at South Ken on the
same day. The westbound split was moved to the west end of South Ken on
30th March 1969.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , Nestor Badudoy
writes
Any chance you still have those ASCII diagrams - can't seem to find them on
Google groups.

I've been unable to find them either, so here is an attempted
reconstruction.

Original layout from 1871-07-10 (minor tracks omitted):

To Padd
^ v
| |
#| |#| |#
#| |#| |# HSK
#| |#| |#
| | * *
| |/|/|
| X X |
|/|/| |
* * | |
| | \ \
* * \ \
/ X \ \ \
/ / \ \ \ \
/ / \ \ \ \ Gloucester South
^ v \ \ \ \ Road Kensington
To EC \ \ \ \ ###### ######
Cromwell \ \--------------------------------------\
Curve \ Metropolitan \
\ \ \--------------------------------------\ *----
\ \ ###### ###### X To MH
---------------X-*----------------------------------------/ *----
To EC \ District /
-----------------*----------------------------------------/
###### ######

The earlier history of the District is:

1868-12-24 Opened from Westminster to GR, using Met. tracks west of
the junction at the right end of the diagram.
1869-04-12 Extended to West Brompton, using a temporary double
crossover at the east end of Gloucester Road and the Met.
east of there.
1869-09-07 Earl's Court to HSK finished but not put into use.
1870-08-01 Temporary double crossover moved to west end of South Ken.
1870-07-05 Cromwell Curve built but not put into use.
1871-07-03 Both District routes to HSK opened.
1871-07-10 District tracks through South Ken opened, crossover removed.

On 1957-07-28 a new layout was opened, having been installed overnight:

To Padd
^ v
| |
#| |#| |#
#| |#| |# HSK
#| |#| |#
| | * *
| |/|/|
| X X |
|/|/| |
* * | |
| | \ \
| | \ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
/ / | \ Gloucester South
^ v \ \ Road Kensington
To EC \ \ ###### ######
\ \-*------*----------Slow---------------\
\ / / \
/----------X-*------*------------Fast-----------------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH
----/ -----------*--------*---------Circle----------------*----
To EC / /
--------------------------*------------Dist---------------/
###### ######

The fast line was last used 1964-10-12, and on 1967-01-08 it was
disconnected and the slow was slewed on to its trackbed at South Ken.

On 1969-03-30 the final layout came into use:

| | \ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
/ / | \ Gloucester South
^ v \ \ Road Kensington
To EC \ \ ###### ######
\ \-*---------------------------\
\ / ##XX## \
/----------X-/ ##XX## \---------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH
----/ -----------*--------*---------Circle------*--------------
To EC / /
--------------------------*------------Dist-----/
###### ######

(the platform extension XXXX was later).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Clive Feather:
On 1969-03-30 the final layout came into use:

| | \ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
/ / | \ Gloucester South
^ v \ \ Road Kensington
To EC \ \ ###### ######
\ \-*---------------------------\
\ / ##XX## \
/----------X-/ ##XX## \---------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH
----/ -----------*--------*---------Circle------*--------------
To EC / /
--------------------------*------------Dist-----/
###### ######

(the platform extension XXXX was later).

Er, so does that actually mean

\ / XXXXXX \
/----------X-/ XXXXXX \---------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH

? I find it hard to imagine the configuration as drawn...
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "This is a film of non-stop action
| and non-start intelligence." --Mark Leeper

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article , Nestor Badudoy
writes

Any chance you still have those ASCII diagrams - can't seem to find them on
Google groups.


I've been unable to find them either, so here is an attempted
reconstruction.
(snip)
On 1957-07-28 a new layout was opened, having been installed overnight:

To Padd
^ v
| |
#| |#| |#
#| |#| |# HSK
#| |#| |#
| | * *
| |/|/|
| X X |
|/|/| |
* * | |
| | \ \
| | \ \
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
/ / | \ Gloucester South
^ v \ \ Road Kensington
To EC \ \ ###### ######
\ \-*------*----------Slow---------------\
\ / / \
/----------X-*------*------------Fast-----------------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH
----/ -----------*--------*---------Circle----------------*----
To EC / /
--------------------------*------------Dist---------------/
###### ######

The fast line was last used 1964-10-12, and on 1967-01-08 it was
disconnected and the slow was slewed on to its trackbed at South Ken.
(snip)

Out of interest, why did they decide to have a slow/fast separation here
and how was it used? Did trains skip either/both of these stations, and
if so, was it really worth it?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article , Dave Arquati
writes
Out of interest, why did they decide to have a slow/fast separation
here and how was it used? Did trains skip either/both of these
stations, and if so, was it really worth it?

Yes, many District trains skipped various stations, including both
Gloucester Road and South Kensington.

In 1964 there were 8 non-stop trains in the morning peak. Analysis
showed that non-stopping didn't help: the run wasn't long enough for a
non-stopper to overtake a preceding stopper, and 5 or 6 of those 8
trains would typically be held at the convergence point. A new timetable
introduced late that year eliminated the non-stoppers, and experience
showed this worked; this led to the track simplification.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , Mark Brader
writes
(the platform extension XXXX was later).

Er, so does that actually mean

\ / XXXXXX \
/----------X-/ XXXXXX \---------*----
/ \ ###### ###### To MH

In a sense; I meant "the bit of platform that can be identified by the
Xs", not that the Xs represented the whole of the extension.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Dave Arquati:
Out of interest, why did they decide to have a slow/fast separation
here and how was it used? Did trains skip either/both of these
stations, and if so, was it really worth it?

Clive Feather:
Yes, many District trains skipped various stations, including both
Gloucester Road and South Kensington.

In 1964 there were 8 non-stop trains in the morning peak.

This is, of course, the Underground's special sense of "non-stop",
meaning "not stopping at all stations" as opposed to "making no stops
between terminals".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "[i] have a will of iron."
| "And a head to match." --Robert B. Parker, "Chance"

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article , Dave Arquati
writes

Out of interest, why did they decide to have a slow/fast separation
here and how was it used? Did trains skip either/both of these
stations, and if so, was it really worth it?


Yes, many District trains skipped various stations, including both
Gloucester Road and South Kensington.

In 1964 there were 8 non-stop trains in the morning peak. Analysis
showed that non-stopping didn't help: the run wasn't long enough for a
non-stopper to overtake a preceding stopper, and 5 or 6 of those 8
trains would typically be held at the convergence point. A new timetable
introduced late that year eliminated the non-stoppers, and experience
showed this worked; this led to the track simplification.

That's interesting. Where did the non-stop trains run from - Richmond,
Hounslow or Ealing Broadway? And I presume they used the current
Piccadilly tracks between Acton Town and Barons Court?


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London