In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:58:36 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:22:57 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Jim" wrote in message
...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/13301604

I don't understand how the ES can describe putting bus fares up
from 100p to 120p before 9:30am and down from 100p to 80p
after 9:30am as "Bus Fares Soar".

The point though is that cash fares rise 20p or 20%; AM peak
Oyster pre pay fares rise 30p to £1 so nearly 50% while even off
peak Pre Pay fares rise 10p or 14%. No matter which way you view
it I'd say they were pretty big rises.

In 2003 the fare was 80p cash
In 2004 the fare was 70p cash
In 2005 the fare will be 120p cash.

This will be a 50% rise on the 2003 fares and a 70% rise on the
2004 fares for the many people who pay cash. It's just a rip-off.

Sorry, I got the years wrong. It should have been:
2002 - 80p - 50% rise
2003 - 70p - 70% rise


...% rise to next year's £1.20 cash fare, I assume you mean.
But the whole point of the fare structure is to encourage people not to
use cash fares. Next year's Pre-Pay non-morning-peak fare of 80p will be
the same as the 2002 cash fare.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


But there are many people who use the bus occasionally who will not want
an oyster card or have to buy saver tickets. I don't pay bus fares, but
there are still the odd occasions when I need to pay a fare for a friend
that is travelling with me who cannot afford the fare. Many other
occasional travellers, unemployed etc. are in the same boat. Why should
they have to fork out money in advance? Like I said, it's a rip off.

Many people don't trust oyster cards because they have no control over
what is being deducted from them and cannot see there and then what
actually has been deducted. If an oyster card was swiped on a bus and then
the person was told that he'd have to swipe again because it failed, how
will that person know he hasn't been deducted twice? How would the person
know that the correct fare has been deducted from the card (i.e. was the
time exactly right on the oyster reader?)

They're trying to force people to use oyster cards, but, unless they've
changed it, according to the leaflet they're also charging people £10 for
the oyster card. Seems to me like they've got it made because they've got
a captive large group of people who have to use the buses and they can do
what they want. I assume that they'll do the same thing to the tubes next.

Roger

wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 22 Sep 2004:

But there are many people who use the bus occasionally who will not want
an oyster card or have to buy saver tickets. I don't pay bus fares, but
there are still the odd occasions when I need to pay a fare for a friend
that is travelling with me who cannot afford the fare. Many other
occasional travellers, unemployed etc. are in the same boat. Why should
they have to fork out money in advance? Like I said, it's a rip off.

Although if you have a pack of saver tickets in your purse or wallet,
it's very useful for the occasional journey and, indeed, to give one to
a beggar who importunes you for the price of a bus fare.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 11 September 2004

Many people don't trust oyster cards because they have no control over
what is being deducted from them and cannot see there and then what
actually has been deducted.

We seem to be talking about buses and with those, and with the trams, the
reader tells you what the fare was and how much credit you have left. I've
never bothered to take a second look at the tubes.

If an oyster card was swiped on a bus and
then
the person was told that he'd have to swipe again because it failed, how
will that person know he hasn't been deducted twice?

You know when it has worked because you get a green light and the message as
above. So it shouldn't be an issue.


How would the person
know that the correct fare has been deducted from the card (i.e. was the
time exactly right on the oyster reader?)

Again you know how much has been deducted because the reader tells you.

The time being wrong could indeed be an issue and already is for other
things. My Mum has been denied boarding to buses on her Freedom Pass
because the driver insists it is too early due to his having the wrong time.

They're trying to force people to use oyster cards, but, unless they've
changed it, according to the leaflet they're also charging people £10 for
the oyster card.

It is a £3 refundable deposit.

G.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:16:19 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Many people don't trust oyster cards because they have no control over
what is being deducted from them and cannot see there and then what
actually has been deducted. If an oyster card was swiped on a bus and then
the person was told that he'd have to swipe again because it failed, how
will that person know he hasn't been deducted twice? How would the person
know that the correct fare has been deducted from the card (i.e. was the
time exactly right on the oyster reader?)

As has already been mentioned, the fare and balance are shown but I
think are easy to miss, and in my case half the time followed by "Card
communication error" or "Passback attempted". Perhaps I have a dodgy
card?

I think that 70p - 80p is bad enough, let alone £1. The one-day rise
to £6 is also well above inflation. My favourite, the weekend
travelcard will be "replaced" with two one-days for £12.

I was going to mention this in a new thread, but this seems like as
good a time as any. I've just come back from Lisbon, where as well as
an Oyster-like card with a reasonable deposit ("Lisboa Viva") there is
a cheaper (EUR 0.50) "7 Colinas" ticket stock that is also contactless
and rechargeable but is made of shiny paper, slightly thicker than a
normal ticket. If you hold it up you can see the antenna and chip.
It is valid for a year, although it looks like it might not last that
long. The first time you get it from a human, after that you can load
a ticket on it at a machine.

If we could have such a thing in London for maybe 50p, this would
pretty much do away with the deposit argument, and could get everyone,
even (eventually) single and day ticket users, away from old printed
tickets. Of course we'd have to trash the roadside ticket machines
and replace them with some that work (an excellent idea).

Next, although there are advantages to a flexible pre-pay fare
structure, simple one day passes and 10-journey tickets could be put
on these cheap media. The full fare range could continue to be
available on a "proper" Oyster card.

How about it?

Richard.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:50:52 +0100, Graham J wrote:
They're trying to force people to use oyster cards, but, unless they've
changed it, according to the leaflet they're also charging people £10 for
the oyster card.

It is a £3 refundable deposit.

I read somewhere that you can get an unregistered oyster card (no need to
fill in a form and give your address so Ken can track your movements from
his Dr. No type fortress). Is that right? Can I just walk up to a window
and ask for an unregistered card?

I read somewhere that you can get an unregistered oyster card (no need to
fill in a form and give your address so Ken can track your movements from
his Dr. No type fortress). Is that right? Can I just walk up to a window
and ask for an unregistered card?

Not so much asking for an unregistered card but asking for an Oystercard and
declining the offer to fill in the registration form. This only applies to
Pre-Pay cards though, if you want a season ticket then you are required to
register AFAIK.

"Graham J" wrote in message
...
I read somewhere that you can get an unregistered oyster card (no need
to
fill in a form and give your address so Ken can track your movements
from
his Dr. No type fortress). Is that right? Can I just walk up to a window
and ask for an unregistered card?

Not so much asking for an unregistered card but asking for an Oystercard
and
declining the offer to fill in the registration form. This only applies to
Pre-Pay cards though, if you want a season ticket then you are required to
register AFAIK.

Did that, got one. Got moaned at about "register as soon as you have time".
Heh.

Now as long as I remember to top up with cash and not card, I should be
relativley safe. Huzzah.
--
Everything above is the personal opinion of the author, and nothing to do
with where he works and all that lovely disclaimery stuff.
Posted in his lunch hour too.