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Buses blocking the road
Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and
bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent traffic passing them. On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? |
Buses blocking the road
Matthew Church wrote:
Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent traffic passing them. On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? New TfL policy has been to fill in bus lay-bys so that buses aren't held up waiting for traffic to let them out when they leave a bus stop. As for the dual carriageway "jetty", that sounds a bit odd! Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Buses blocking the road
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
... Matthew Church wrote: Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. It is already a rule in the Highway Code, though I believe HC rules are for guidance and are not mandatory. I usually let a bus pull out in front of me if it indicates and waits for me to let it out - which I indicate by giving it a double-flash of my headlights since the HC does not define a proper "I will wait for you" signal (*). Some bus drivers think that putting their indicator on gives them a divine right to pull away without checking whether they will force a vehicle to swerve into oncoming traffic if it's already started to overtake the bus before it started signalling. (*) If the use of the headlight flashing signal for this use is prohibited, then it's very simple: I am not prepared to wait for another car if I'm unable to signal my intentions rather than relying on telepathy - a clear signal is safer than ambiguity "*is* he or *isn't* he going to wait for me?" |
Buses blocking the road
Matthew Church:
Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! I first heard of this concept some 10 years ago in misc.transport.urban- transit under the name of "bus bulb". (Presumably the shape of the "jetty" is considered bulbous. I don't know if a different term is used in Britain, and I've never actually seen one of them.) Dave Arquati: Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. ... That works for me. Such a law was adopted recently here in Ontario, Canada. I'm not sure how many drivers actually know about it, but that'll improve over time. I include the text of the section for anyone's interest: # Requirement to yield to bus from bus bay # # 142.1 # # (1) Every driver of a vehicle in the lane of traffic adjacent # to a bus bay shall yield the right of way to the driver of # a bus who has indicated his or her intention, as prescribed, # to re-enter that lane from the bus bay. # # Bus not to signal until ready # # (2) The driver of a bus shall not indicate his or her intention # to re-enter the lane of traffic adjacent to a bus bay # until the driver is ready to re-enter traffic. # # When bus must wait # # (3) No driver of a bus shall re-enter the lane of traffic # adjacent to a bus bay and move into the path of a vehicle # or street car if the vehicle or street car is so close that # it is impractical for the driver to yield the right of way. # # Regulations # # (4) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations # for the purposes of this section, # (a) defining bus and bus bay; # (b) prescribing the manner in which a bus driver shall # indicate his or her intention to re-enter the lane # that is adjacent to a bus bay; # (c) prescribing signs, signal devices and markings for # bus bays; # (d) prescribing the standards, specifications and location # of the signs, signal devices and markings; # (e) prescribing standards for operating and maintaining # any signal devices prescribed under clause (c). (The Lieutenant Governor is the Queen's representative in Ontario, and "the LG in Council" effectively means the provincial cabinet.) This was actually enacted in 1994, but with a proviso that it wasn't in force until so proclaimed, which happened sometime this century. -- Mark Brader "Elaborative, polysyllabic multipartite agglu- Toronto tinations can obfuscate and become obstructive to comprehensibility." -- Chris Torek My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Buses blocking the road
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 13:10:08 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: New TfL policy has been to fill in bus lay-bys so that buses aren't held up waiting for traffic to let them out when they leave a bus stop. So, instead, one of the following happens; 1) The cars behind execute dangerous overtaking manoeuvres, or; 2) The cars have to wait while fares are taken. I personally don't see that the way to attract people to public transport is to do things like this that make it more resented. What we need is... 1) More sensible positioning of bus stops. It's worth considering things like putting stops right up against traffic lights with some sort of priority control so the bus can request the lights to change in its favour when it's finished at the stop. I've seen this sort of thing in a few places in Germany. 2) Off-bus ticketing, loss of the requirement to show passes or the return of conductors. Buses can only be allowed to block traffic if fares do not need to be collected at stops, as at a busy stop the cars could be waiting a number of minutes. This is not conducive to effective traffic flow. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To e-mail use neil at the above domain |
Buses blocking the road
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Buses blocking the road
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:29:26 +0100, Martin Underwood
wrote in : It is already a rule in the Highway Code, though I believe HC rules are for guidance and are not mandatory. I thought it was legislation, from either the beginning of this year or that of 2003. I recall seeing signs to that effect on the back of buses (I've ridden a grand total of 25 km in the last two years so I don't get to study the back of buses too often...). This doesn't seem to be borne out by the latest HC-online, though. -- Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration, Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". |
Buses blocking the road
Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long before a bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without looking "because they have to give way to me" and causes an accident. With any luck, it won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past him at the time. |
Buses blocking the road
Adrian wrote:
Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long before a bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without looking "because they have to give way to me" and causes an accident. With any luck, it won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past him at the time. Although surely if this rule were the case and the bus driver had signalled to pull out, then whoever subsequently overtakes is the one causing the accident rather than the bus driver. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Buses blocking the road
Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long before a bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without looking "because they have to give way to me" and causes an accident. With any luck, it won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past him at the time. Although surely if this rule were the case and the bus driver had signalled to pull out, then whoever subsequently overtakes is the one causing the accident rather than the bus driver. You're assuming the bus driver will signal and will pause long enough before pulling out to allow the traffic to react to that signal. |
Buses blocking the road
(UM Pston) wrote in message . com...
(Matthew Church) wrote in message om... On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Laybys are bad for the buses - having to get back into the traffic stream delays the service and affects reliability. People would probably be more inclined to let buses out if they knew they weren't going to be moving at a snails pace once they've done it. I live in a quite hilly area and the double deckers have trouble maintaining 25mph on some of these hills which have long narrow roads making overtaking impossible. Even full laden HGVs seem to manage a better speed up the hill than the buses. Theres probably a case for more powerful engines in the buses but in the meantime no car driver who wants to get to their destination some time the same day is going to let the bus out. B2003 |
Buses blocking the road
"Nick H (UK)" wrote in message ...
UM Pston wrote: snip Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? Not everywhere, but in some places where this helps bus reliability yes. Widening the road sufficiently to allow overtaking the bus without a layby might be a better solution in places where land is cheap but in London (I've never been to Hook or Chessington mind you) it just isn't. And of course the widened pavements aren't going to be narrowed again to their previous perfectly reasonable width. I don't really see what you mean - if you widen the footway (or the road for that matter) it is usually a permanent change. I do feel that I would get better value for my council tax if the department of my local council that deals with roads and pavements just put their feet up and stopped work altogether. It may well come to that - the amount paid out on insurance claims for people tripping on dodgy paving slabs or driving down potholes rises as maintenance expenditure falls. In addition to the financial cost widening the road at almost all points of congestion in London would mean demolishing the buildings on one or both sides of the road. Fine if you can get a developer to pay - they tried that in a lot of places in the 60s & 70s but, in the long term, it didn't solve the traffic congestion. So now they make the roads narrower. If they can't beat the 'congestion' they might as well help cause it, I suppose :-( Road improvements which decrease the travel-time for drivers often fail to reduce congestion in the long term - because it enables more people to live further awy fron their work; or travel more miles in the business day or whatever. The 'improvement' thereby generates more traffic. Investing in public transport infrastructure rather than road-widening may heve the opposite effect but nobody really knows yet because they haven't done it for long enough to prove it. Surely it is worth a try. People love to talk about the increase in traffic. I never hear any statistics quoted about decrease in road space. As much as 30 to 50 percent on some roads? A much smaller percentage if you look at the whole journey. Some reallocation of road-space is surely needed to make bus, cycle & pedestrian journeys safer and faster in order to reduce the growth in car traffic. I think everybody who wants one should have (or share) a car - but should use it less if there are viable alternatives. To make the alternatives viable we must invest in the infrastructure they need. More road widening in London is just too expensive, regardless of the environmental issues. That is why the last Conservative government curtailed their planned road-building programme. It wasn't for ideological reasons - they just couldn't afford it. |
Buses blocking the road
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
... Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Such a rule would never be safe. A decision to allow a bus to pull out should be based upon a range of factors:- (i) How close is the vehicle behind? (ii) Would you have to brake hard? (dangerous in wet conditions) (iii) Is there a cyclist near you? (iv) Is there a gap behind that the bus could easily fit into with minimal delay to the traffic flow as a whole? (v) Is the bus going to attempt to cross more than just your own lane? (vi) Is the bus going to pull out at all? (The right-turn indication on a bus is a problem issue because you don't know if he's actually intending to change lanes or merely start moving in his existing lane, and can't tell because the bus blocks out the forward view). Furthermore, such a rule would simply give the many incompetent bus-drivers that unfortunately exist in London even more mis-placed authority to pull out when not appropriate/safe, which would be highly dangerous for everybody. Apart from these issues, I don't really see why buses should have priority over other traffic, but then I never travel by bus and hopefully will never need to. |
Buses blocking the road
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
... Although surely if this rule were the case and the bus driver had signalled to pull out, then whoever subsequently overtakes is the one causing the accident rather than the bus driver. So at what point does it become the fault of the overtaker? A slow-moving cyclist could take quite a few seconds to pass a stopped bus, and what if the bus starts indicating just as the bike has passed the rear indicator? |
Buses blocking the road
Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004:
Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. I thought this already was the rule? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 26 September 2004 |
Buses blocking the road
Annabel Smyth wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004: Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. I thought this already was the rule? It's Highway Code advice, but not compulsory. "198. *Buses, coaches and trams.* Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops." -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Buses blocking the road
I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided
that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike! Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus "Adrian" wrote in message . 1.4... Dave Arquati ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Although in favour of speeding up buses, I wonder whether it might better serve the interests of both bus users and motorists to introduce a rule which makes it compulsory to let buses leaving a bus stop pull out. Unfortunately I suspect the problem would be enforcement - on-bus cameras might be an option, but they're expensive and it's another thing for the driver to worry about. Hmmm. I can foresee a slight problem with that - it won't be long before a bus driver just pulls straight out into traffic without looking "because they have to give way to me" and causes an accident. With any luck, it won't be a motorbike or a bicycle that's going past him at the time. |
Buses blocking the road
"Philip Mason" wrote in message
... I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike! Of course, one of these "trained professionals" recently did the self-same thing on Blackfriars Bridge. He either didn't bother to look for the bicycle on his right, or didn't care. Either way, the cyclist was killed. |
Buses blocking the road
In message , at 17:11:01 on Tue, 5 Oct
2004, Philip Mason remarked: Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus A bit of a London-centric view, that. People outside the M25 would kill to get a public transport service a tenth as good as that inside. -- Roland Perry |
Buses blocking the road
--- "Philip Mason" said: I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus But surely comfort is, by its very nature, a luxury and not a fundamental human right? |
Buses blocking the road
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: A bit of a London-centric view, that. People outside the M25 would kill to get a public transport service a tenth as good as that inside. And over 60's outside the GLC area would kill to have free travel over such a large area. -- Tony Bryer |
Buses blocking the road
Neil Williams wrote:
1) More sensible positioning of bus stops. It's worth considering things like putting stops right up against traffic lights with some sort of priority control so the bus can request the lights to change in its favour when it's finished at the stop. I've seen this sort of thing in a few places in Germany. This kind of positioning of bus stops is quite usual over here in Germany, often combined with extra traffic lights for buses, as seen in these pictures: http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...NV/CO_Bhf1.JPG, http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...trasse_Bus.JPG These traffic lights contain "-" for "stop", "|" for "go", and often "T" for "close doors" (_T_ueren schliessen), "V" for "yield" (_V_orfahrt gewaehren), "A" for "request" (_A_nforderung) and many more (often "/" or "\" instead of "|" to show the direction). Priority control: The buses here in Stuttgart have infrared transmitters, see http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...PNV/Bus_IR.jpg The receivers are placed on or nearby traffic lights, see http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Sensoren/RBL.jpg This stuff is linked together with the traffic light priority control and the real-time-bus-arrival-displays on bus stops. Torsten |
Buses blocking the road
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Buses blocking the road
Matthew Church wrote:
Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent traffic passing them. On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot pass when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not pull in when they can. Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious 'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds. Why not move bus routes to minor roads? And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? No; scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-) -- Nick H (UK) |
Buses blocking the road
Nick H (UK) wrote:
Matthew Church wrote: Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent traffic passing them. On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot pass when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not pull in when they can. Why not ban cars from roads where they cannot pass buses? Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious 'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds. Why not move bus routes to minor roads? Why not move cars on to minor roads? This is London, not the highlands of Scotland. There simply isn't enough road space for everyone to travel by car. Remember, before the congestion charge something like 14% of journeys in central London were made by car, and we had near gridlock. Cars can only be used by a small minority in large city - it's difficult to see why they should be given much priority. And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? No; scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-) I can't see how delaying cars can be a bad thing on the whole. Making driving in London really unpleasant seems like a good way to get people out of their cars to me. After all, a similar policy was in place against pedestrians for many years - look at most British towns. OK - it's a shame for the small number of drivers who have to travel by car, and emergency access needs to be considered. In the long run, though, fewer unnecessary cars on the road would be to everyone's benefit. The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. A |
Buses blocking the road
"Anonymouse" wrote in message
... Nick H (UK) wrote: The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog wall! For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me, providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read the road ahead of them! |
Buses blocking the road
Nick H (UK) wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 10 Oct 2004:
Why not move bus routes to minor roads? Because they'd block them completely. And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? Because at those hours, the bus lane is invariably blocked by parked cars. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 26 September 2004 |
Buses blocking the road
Martin Underwood wrote:
"Anonymouse" wrote in message ... Nick H (UK) wrote: The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog wall! From personal experience, I would put it as punish-the-few-for-the-sins-of-the-majority. There is something quite scary about the way normally rational people behave when behind the wheel of a car. And let's not forget the six million bus passengers every day in London who are currently inconvenienced by inconsiderate drivers. What is your solution to the problem? I have already written why I think delaying car drivers for a short while is OK. Before, buses were unable to pull out in traffic. Now, they can. If the solution inconveniences those who are considerate, maybe they will increase peer pressure on those who are not, and change their behaviour. For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me, providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read the road ahead of them! It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that point.) A |
Buses blocking the road
Anonymouse typed
It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that point.) Don't you? He *is* a motorist... ;-) To be fair, he might worry that someone could crash into his rear. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Buses blocking the road
"Anonymouse" wrote in message
... For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me, providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read the road ahead of them! It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that point.) By saying "without needing to brake" I was saying that if you read the road properly, you can slow down so gently that you hardly notice it, rather than reacting at the last minute and braking hard. The same thing applies to creating a little extra space in front of you to let a car turn right across your path. Of course, if the driver that wants to pull out or turn across your path doesn't do so as soon as you signal that you'll wait for him, the whole plan goes pear-shaped ;-) I'm sure I am unusual in giving way to buses and letting cars turn right across my path, but I judge that delaying myself by a few seconds is preferable to making a busful of passengers wait until some kindly soul lets the bus pull out or to making all the cars behind the one that's turning wait till someone lets him turn. Sadly, there aren't many drivers who do the same for me :-( |
Buses blocking the road
Anonymouse ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who post to newsgroups! If only all drivers actually realised that it's an activity that requires skill and attention... Which is why the ones who post and discuss it are usually the ones who are better drivers - because they're not just the sheep who sit behind the steering wheel and zone out until their destination. Same as the posters to uk.rec.cycling don't tend to be the brain-dead "lycra louts" to whom red lights and other traffic laws don't apply. (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that point.) Nor do I - and that's why I'll slow or stop to let a bus out if it's safe to do so. |
Buses blocking the road
"Anonymouse" wrote in message
... What is your solution to the problem? One solution would be to give all bus stops on main roads a lengthened acceleration lane, and to install "Give Way" signs and lines for the general traffic at the end of the bus's acceleration lane. Not cheap. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Buses blocking the road
Philip Mason wrote:
I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike! Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus Since when has there been the right to drive a car? |
Buses blocking the road
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:31:31 +0000 (UTC), "Piccadilly Pilot"
wrote: Philip Mason wrote: I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike! Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus Since when has there been the right to drive a car? Mrs Thatcher and the Daily Mail believe it so it must be right. Only poor people travel by public transport and we certainly can't have car owners being seen as somehow less or worse off than the rest of society. I'm sure the EU Court of Human Rights would completely concur with such views. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Buses blocking the road
Anonymouse wrote:
Nick H (UK) wrote: Matthew Church wrote: Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent traffic passing them. On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71 has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere to pull out of (good thing for the 71). Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now *completely* blocks the road to cars! Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same speed as the bus they see ahead of them? Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot pass when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not pull in when they can. Why not ban cars from roads where they cannot pass buses? Ahh, so you've swallowed the Bus is King line. Surely there's room for everyone with correct planning, rather than crazy dogma. Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious 'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds. Why not move bus routes to minor roads? Why not move cars on to minor roads? Cars use minor roads /anyway/. Put the buses there too and leave the main roads free to get as much traffic flowing as possible. This is London, not the highlands of Scotland. There simply isn't enough road space for everyone to travel by car. Actually I don't believe that. Huge amounts of road space have been lost to cars through pavement widening, bus lanes, cycle lanes (which many cyclists do not consider safe or want). Result: congestion. The we have the spin that it is all down to cars. I believe that it is largely down to engineering. It's all spin. Remember, before the congestion charge something like 14% of journeys in central London were made by car, and we had near gridlock. had? On the main road near to me (not in the congestion zone)it is often gridlock. Why? Oh, sheer weight of traffic, many would cry. But how many times do have the experience of taking half an hour to approach and pass through one set of traffic lights, after which the road is clear. An engineered jam! Stop-start congested traffic: good for the environment? No. Nice for residents? No. Nice for pedestrians, No. Who wins? the local politicians and the council-tax (our money) spending staff and their crazy schemes. Cars can only be used by a small minority in large city - it's difficult to see why they should be given much priority. And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? No; scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-) I can't see how delaying cars can be a bad thing on the whole. Making driving in London really unpleasant seems like a good way to get people out of their cars to me. After all, a similar policy was in place against pedestrians for many years - look at most British towns. OK - it's a shame for the small number of drivers who have to travel by car, and emergency access needs to be considered. In the long run, though, fewer unnecessary cars on the road would be to everyone's benefit. The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. Every bus delaying the traffic is delaying other buses as well. Why can't anyone take in this simple fact? Traffic moving is traffic moving: better for everyone. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people If bus drivers (who used to be professionals, not road-hogging, junction blocking idiots) acquired some basic consideration for other people... (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. A -- Nick H (UK) |
Buses blocking the road
Martin Underwood wrote:
"Anonymouse" wrote in message ... Nick H (UK) wrote: The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog wall! For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me, Me too. I figure that the guy who /has/ to drive all day because it his job deserves a bit of extra consideration. But, if the balance of my experience gets to be that the bus drivers I let out will block me soon after then... providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read the road ahead of them! -- Nick H (UK) |
Buses blocking the road
Anonymouse wrote:
Martin Underwood wrote: "Anonymouse" wrote in message ... Nick H (UK) wrote: The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary. Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog wall! From personal experience, I would put it as punish-the-few-for-the-sins-of-the-majority. There is something quite scary about the way normally rational people behave when behind the wheel of a car. And let's not forget the six million bus passengers every day in London who are currently inconvenienced by inconsiderate drivers. Well well, six million people ehh? every day? Would that be a rational reasonable statistic? have they been counted? smells like spin to me. But: When a bus driver can't pull in because the stop is full of cars, or obstructed by cars then it is not down to the bus. If traffic wardens spent their time targeting behaviour that actually obstructs traffic everyone would be better off. What is your solution to the problem? I have already written why I think delaying car drivers for a short while is OK. Before, buses were unable to pull out in traffic. Now, they can. If the solution inconveniences those who are considerate, maybe they will increase peer pressure on those who are not, and change their behaviour. There are lots of dreadful drivers in London, behind the wheels of all kinds of vehicles, public service included. For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me, providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read the road ahead of them! It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that point.) Why not indeed? When a bus is stopped on a busy road it isn't going to get out (just as a car is not going to get out of a side road) unless people use speed and lane discipline to facilitate each other. And a lot of the time we do, or there would be vehicles full of skeletons all over the roads. I really am all for a higher standard of driving. How about the professionals setting a good example? A -- Nick H (UK) |
Buses blocking the road
Annabel Smyth wrote:
Nick H (UK) wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 10 Oct 2004: Why not move bus routes to minor roads? Because they'd block them completely. And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? Because at those hours, the bus lane is invariably blocked by parked cars. Which is fine, if parking is allowed at those hours. However, I often find that the bus lane is clear and empty. This however, also encourages overtaking in the left, which is fundamentally dangerous. -- Nick H (UK) |
Buses blocking the road
Piccadilly Pilot wrote:
Philip Mason wrote: I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London, where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot. However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state, My car were a bicycle or motorbike! Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus Since when has there been the right to drive a car? Since when has there been a right to pay vast amounts of money in road tax and duty on fuel? Since when has there been a right to run buses on the road? -- Nick H (UK) |
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