"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour triangles

What colours are used? And how large are the triangles? I've always had
seasons that include zone 1 so I've not seen them.

Dave

All tickets purchased outside Z1 have the triangles.
Blue,yellow,green red. For North, south, east and west issuing.
Cant remember which area is what colour. Havent checked a ticket for a
while!!


"Dave Liney" wrote in message
. ..

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour
triangles

What colours are used? And how large are the triangles? I've always had
seasons that include zone 1 so I've not seen them.

Dave

"Malcolm & Nika" writes:
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1
without a zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the
nice colour triangles... If it was bought north of the river in
a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings.
It will still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to
travel through zone 1.

That makes sense -- except for the part about the gates.

If there are tickets that would be valid in terms of starting and
ending zones alone, but aren't valid for any possible route from the
point of issue to a particular station, why isn't it the case that
(1) the tickets carry enough encoded information for this to be
worked out, and (2) the gates are programmed to reject them?

Of course it gets trickier in cases where *is* a route within the
zones paid for, but it'd be longer than the shortcut through Zone 1,
because the passenger could claim to have taken the long route.
The gates could still detect this if the tickets carried information
about time of use, but then they'd have to know the fastest time
that the long route could take.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Common sense isn't any more common on Usenet
| than it is anywhere else." --Henry Spencer

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Ermmm...yes. I think.

re item 1, they dont (carry enough info)
re item 2, if item 1 is missing....item 2 wont reject.
There arent that many routes that there is an alternative to going through
Z1, well not that you wont need a packed lunch and a swag for. (Stupid
thing to say on here i think).
It reads the value of the ticket, not where it was purchased. It does take
into account the time since purchase.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
"Malcolm & Nika" writes:
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1
without a zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the
nice colour triangles... If it was bought north of the river in
a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings.
It will still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to
travel through zone 1.

That makes sense -- except for the part about the gates.

If there are tickets that would be valid in terms of starting and
ending zones alone, but aren't valid for any possible route from the
point of issue to a particular station, why isn't it the case that
(1) the tickets carry enough encoded information for this to be
worked out, and (2) the gates are programmed to reject them?

Of course it gets trickier in cases where *is* a route within the
zones paid for, but it'd be longer than the shortcut through Zone 1,
because the passenger could claim to have taken the long route.
The gates could still detect this if the tickets carried information
about time of use, but then they'd have to know the fastest time
that the long route could take.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Common sense isn't any more common on Usenet
| than it is anywhere else." --Henry Spencer

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Ermmm...yes. I think.

re item 1, they dont (carry enough info)
re item 2, if item 1 is missing....item 2 wont reject.
There arent that many routes that there is an alternative to going through
Z1, well not that you wont need a packed lunch and a swag for. (Stupid
thing to say on here i think).
It reads the value of the ticket, not where it was purchased. It does take
into account the time since purchase.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...

"Malcolm & Nika" writes:

So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1
without a zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the
nice colour triangles... If it was bought north of the river in
a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings.
It will still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to
travel through zone 1.

That makes sense -- except for the part about the gates.

If there are tickets that would be valid in terms of starting and
ending zones alone, but aren't valid for any possible route from the
point of issue to a particular station, why isn't it the case that
(1) the tickets carry enough encoded information for this to be
worked out, and (2) the gates are programmed to reject them?

Of course it gets trickier in cases where *is* a route within the
zones paid for, but it'd be longer than the shortcut through Zone 1,
because the passenger could claim to have taken the long route.
The gates could still detect this if the tickets carried information
about time of use, but then they'd have to know the fastest time
that the long route could take.

Now that LUL singles are valid on all of Silverlink's North London Line
and West London Line services (at Willesden Jcn - West Brompton incl.),
there are a large number of cross-London journeys that never used to be
possible without going via Z1, e.g. Wimbledon to Walthamstow Central or
Canary Wharf to Cockfosters.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article ,
(Malcolm & Nika) wrote:

All tickets purchased outside Z1 have the triangles.
Blue,yellow,green red. For North, south, east and west issuing.
Cant remember which area is what colour. Havent checked a ticket for a
while!!

Red is south, but my South issued monthy pass was always Green.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Like i said....if you got all day anythings possible....


"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Ermmm...yes. I think.

re item 1, they dont (carry enough info)
re item 2, if item 1 is missing....item 2 wont reject.
There arent that many routes that there is an alternative to going
through Z1, well not that you wont need a packed lunch and a swag for.
(Stupid thing to say on here i think).
It reads the value of the ticket, not where it was purchased. It does
take into account the time since purchase.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...

"Malcolm & Nika" writes:

So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1
without a zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the
nice colour triangles... If it was bought north of the river in
a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings.
It will still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to
travel through zone 1.

That makes sense -- except for the part about the gates.

If there are tickets that would be valid in terms of starting and
ending zones alone, but aren't valid for any possible route from the
point of issue to a particular station, why isn't it the case that
(1) the tickets carry enough encoded information for this to be
worked out, and (2) the gates are programmed to reject them?

Of course it gets trickier in cases where *is* a route within the
zones paid for, but it'd be longer than the shortcut through Zone 1,
because the passenger could claim to have taken the long route.
The gates could still detect this if the tickets carried information
about time of use, but then they'd have to know the fastest time
that the long route could take.

Now that LUL singles are valid on all of Silverlink's North London Line
and West London Line services (at Willesden Jcn - West Brompton incl.),
there are a large number of cross-London journeys that never used to be
possible without going via Z1, e.g. Wimbledon to Walthamstow Central or
Canary Wharf to Cockfosters.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message ...
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a zone
1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour triangles...easy
to spot without actually reading the ticket. If it was bought north of the
river in a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings. It will
still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to travel through zone 1.
RPI sees the north colour triangles, checks it is valid in Z1....hey presto
if its only a £1 ticket....
Incidentally...they caught heaps.

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish that
a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty fundemental to me. If
you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm then travel to Vauxhall then
you must have crossed zone 1. The gates have only been around for
about 15 years, couldn't that check have been part of the programme or
am I missing something here. Do the gates only check the validity of
the date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

Kevin

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:01:11 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

"Malcolm & Nika" writes:
They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1
without a zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the
nice colour triangles... If it was bought north of the river in
a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings.
It will still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to
travel through zone 1.

That makes sense -- except for the part about the gates.

If there are tickets that would be valid in terms of starting and
ending zones alone, but aren't valid for any possible route from the
point of issue to a particular station, why isn't it the case that
(1) the tickets carry enough encoded information for this to be
worked out, and (2) the gates are programmed to reject them?

In my limited knowlesge of this, I think paper tickets don't carry
enough data to establish this.

I know someone who from time to time travels from a Zone 3 Underground
station to another Zone 2 station via Zone 1, with a Zone2/3 ticket -
and the ticket works at each gateline.

This is why Oyster came in and why I've experienced ticket checks in
the depths of Green Park in the interchange areas between the
Victoria, Piccadilly and Jubilee lines.


Cheers,

Jason.

On 22 Oct 2004 00:39:29 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish that
a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty fundemental to me. If
you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm then travel to Vauxhall then
you must have crossed zone 1. The gates have only been around for
about 15 years, couldn't that check have been part of the programme or
am I missing something here. Do the gates only check the validity of
the date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

In my limited knowlesge of this, I think paper tickets don't carry
enough data to establish this.

I know someone who from time to time travels from a Zone 3 Underground
station to another Zone 2 station via Zone 1, with a Zone2/3 ticket -
and the ticket works at each gateline.

This is why Oyster came in and why I've experienced ticket checks in
the depths of Green Park in the interchange areas between the
Victoria, Piccadilly and Jubilee lines.


Cheers,

Jason.


Cheers,

Jason.