Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
always made me wonder.

1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push ?
otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as itself ?
In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i was
wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.

2) I noticed sometimes in a train with many carriages they put in a middle an
engine car but they have it as a passenger car not doing anything, howcome they
didnt put a normal passenger car and they put an engine car in the middle as
well ? (usually circle line or metropolitan)

3) Going back to the past i would like to ask what was the purpose exactly of
the so called "prototype trains" back in 1986 like the green one here
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23602 and here
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23618

Did these trains ever carried passengers or they just used them to test the
engineering of the forthcoming trains ? if thats what they were used for
howcome they were completely furnished inside with seats maps and everything ?

Lastly were these prototype trains in service long andf how many were created
if anyone knows

thanks a lot guys and gals !

-a true underground fan from uxbridge !

"Soniakostas" wrote in message


1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last
one push ? otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards
same size as itself ? In the rasilway trains one carriage is
pulling and the last is pushing i was wondering if the same happens
to the underground trains.

The front car pulls; the back car pushes; and some of the cars in the middle
push and pull at the same time!


2) I noticed sometimes in a train with many carriages they put in a
middle an engine car but they have it as a passenger car not doing
anything, howcome they didnt put a normal passenger car and they
put an engine car in the middle as well ? (usually circle line or
metropolitan)

The theory is that additional driving cabs make the formations more
versatile.


3) Going back to the past i would like to ask what was the purpose
exactly of the so called "prototype trains" back in 1986 like the
green one here http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23602 and here
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23618

Did these trains ever carried passengers or they just used them to
test the engineering of the forthcoming trains ? if thats what they
were used for howcome they were completely furnished inside with
seats maps and everything ?

Lastly were these prototype trains in service long andf how many
were created if anyone knows

There were 3 of these prototype trains - each of four cars (each of the
sets was painted a different colour). They were used as trials for the 1992
tube stock which is used on the Central Line and the Waterloo and City Line.
As prototypes they saw passenger service on the Jubilee Line; it is a
Jubilee Line map that you can see in the second picture and even Jubilee
Line passengers deserve a few seats.


Bob

(Soniakostas) wrote in message ...
Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
always made me wonder.

1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push ?
otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as itself ?
In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i was
wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.

No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992 stock
on the central line every car has motors.

Did these trains ever carried passengers or they just used them to test the
engineering of the forthcoming trains ? if thats what they were used for
howcome they were completely furnished inside with seats maps and everything ?

AFAIK they were prototype stock for the 92 stock now running on the central
line and they were full working trains designed to test out passenger
reaction to them. LUL didn't bother with this approach with the new Jubilee
and Northern line trains however, they just introduced the trains and there
was no passenger feedback in the design process mores the pity.


Lastly were these prototype trains in service long andf how many were created
if anyone knows

3 i think but don't hold me to that.

B2003

In message , Boltar
writes

No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992
stock on the central line every car has motors.
It's a long time since I worked on the tube, but both "38" and "62"
stock had six out of eight cars as motor cars( that is driving the
train) whilst the non motor cars had the compressors underneath them.
Cars with driving facilities were usually two a train, making two
individual sets driven(operated)from the front.
--
Clive.

In article ,
(Clive Coleman) wrote:

In message , Boltar
writes

No. Usually roughly every 2nd car has its own motors but on the 1992
stock on the central line every car has motors.
It's a long time since I worked on the tube, but both "38" and "62"
stock had six out of eight cars as motor cars( that is driving the
train) whilst the non motor cars had the compressors underneath them.
Cars with driving facilities were usually two a train, making two
individual sets driven(operated)from the front.

From the 1938 TS up to the 1962 stock there were 2 trailers per 7 or 8 car
train with one motor per motor bogie.

The 1967 and subsequent stocks had two motors per motor bogie so a
slightly higher trailer car ratio, four out of eight in 1967 stock, three
out of seven in 1972 stock (and 1996 stock too when it is extended to
seven cars) and two out of six in other stocks apart from 1992 stock in
which every axle is motored.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Iain" wrote in message
...

Definitely three. It was 15 years ago but I'm pretty sure that each
design was painted/liveried in a different colour: one was green and one
blue, the other might have been either yellow or red. I assume the idea
behind this was for easy identification on the feedback form, eg "I
preferred the green train because ..."

The 1986 Prototype Stock actually consisted of three four-car units, two
from Metro-Cammell (one green, one red) and one from BREL Ltd. at Derby
(blue). They operated on the Jubilee line for a while, in six car
formations, before being withdrawn in August 1989 and stored at Acton (the
BREL train) and Neasden (the Metro-Cammell trains, prior to disposal or
preservation.

On 25 Oct 2004 22:15:20 GMT, (Soniakostas) wrote:

Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
always made me wonder.

1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push ?
otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as itself ?
In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i was
wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.

Within a "train" of underground carriages you will typically get two
units attached to each other. On some lines each unit has 4 cars - e.g.
the Victoria and Metropolitan Lines have 8 car trains while on others
you get a mix of 4 cars and 3 cars to give a 7 car train (Piccadilly
Line or Circle / Hammersmith and City)

Depending on the configuration of the train some carriages have motors
(what you term an engine) and others don't have any - called trailer
cars. A bit like an articulated lorry where the front bit has the
engine and the back bit - the trailer - carries whatever is being
transported from a to be.

Now I might get shot down in flames from one of our resident drivers or
engineers here but one way to tell which is which is to look at a train
on the opposite track and see which wheels have the "shoe" attached to
pick up the electric power. If a carriage has shoes then it is a motor
car, if there are no shoes then it is a trailer car. The best lines to
see this on are the sub surface lines like the Met or District lines
because there are two tracks side by side.

2) I noticed sometimes in a train with many carriages they put in a middle an
engine car but they have it as a passenger car not doing anything, howcome they
didnt put a normal passenger car and they put an engine car in the middle as
well ? (usually circle line or metropolitan)

This is partly to do with platform lengths because some lines can only
take 6 or 7 car trains and not 8 cars. On some Circle and Hammersmith
and City trains the end passenger car actually has a very small driving
console behind a panel so the train can be driven in the depot from this
position to join up to another four car train.

The other reason is that we have to be able to take trains apart to
allow them to be maintained or repaired if something breaks down on
them. If you had two seven car trains and in train number one the 3 car
unit had to fixed you'd have the four car bit spare. For train number
two the 4 car unit needs to be fixed then the 3 car section is spare. We
can then join the two spare sections together to get a working 7 car
train.

3) Going back to the past i would like to ask what was the purpose exactly of
the so called "prototype trains" back in 1986 like the green one here
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23602 and here
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23618

Did these trains ever carried passengers or they just used them to test the
engineering of the forthcoming trains ? if thats what they were used for
howcome they were completely furnished inside with seats maps and everything ?

Lots of people have already provided answers to this but you right in
that the trains were developed to test some different engineering bits
but also to test different interior designs with the public.

Hope that info is useful.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

Within a "train" of underground carriages you will typically get two
units attached to each other. On some lines each unit has 4 cars - e.g.
the Victoria and Metropolitan Lines have 8 car trains while on others
you get a mix of 4 cars and 3 cars to give a 7 car train (Piccadilly
Line or Circle / Hammersmith and City)

Piccadilly and Circle trains are all 6 cars. Piccadilly trains are made up
of two 3 car units while Circle trains are three 2 car units. The Bakerloo
has the only 7 car trains at present though the Jubilee is planning to
extend its trains from 6 to 7 cars in the next year or so.

Depending on the configuration of the train some carriages have motors
(what you term an engine) and others don't have any - called trailer
cars. A bit like an articulated lorry where the front bit has the
engine and the back bit - the trailer - carries whatever is being
transported from a to be.

A further distinction used to be the number of motors per bogie but all
modern stock has two.

Now I might get shot down in flames from one of our resident drivers or
engineers here but one way to tell which is which is to look at a train
on the opposite track and see which wheels have the "shoe" attached to
pick up the electric power. If a carriage has shoes then it is a motor
car, if there are no shoes then it is a trailer car. The best lines to
see this on are the sub surface lines like the Met or District lines
because there are two tracks side by side.

That will confuse you with some stocks, most notably the Central Line
stock where every axle is motored and the 8 car trains are made up of 2
car units of three types.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On 25 Oct 2004 22:15:20 GMT, (Soniakostas) wrote:

Hi i have a few qurstions to ask regarding to the underground trains that
always made me wonder.

1) Firstly when a train goes does the first car pull and the last one push
?
otherwise how just one car can pull so many other cards same size as
itself ?
In the rasilway trains one carriage is pulling and the last is pushing i
was
wondering if the same happens to the underground trains.

Within a "train" of underground carriages you will typically get two
units attached to each other. On some lines each unit has 4 cars - e.g.
the Victoria and Metropolitan Lines have 8 car trains while on others
you get a mix of 4 cars and 3 cars to give a 7 car train (Piccadilly
Line or Circle / Hammersmith and City)

Depending on the configuration of the train some carriages have motors
(what you term an engine) and others don't have any - called trailer
cars. A bit like an articulated lorry where the front bit has the
engine and the back bit - the trailer - carries whatever is being
transported from a to be.

Now I might get shot down in flames from one of our resident drivers or
engineers here but one way to tell which is which is to look at a train
on the opposite track and see which wheels have the "shoe" attached to
pick up the electric power. If a carriage has shoes then it is a motor
car, if there are no shoes then it is a trailer car. The best lines to
see this on are the sub surface lines like the Met or District lines
because there are two tracks side by side.


Your method of indentifying motor and non-motor cars is ok. However the
Piccadilly has 6 car trains, four motor cars and two trailers the first,
third, fourth and sixth cars being the motors. Most of the "middle" motor
cars have a limited driving position to allow movements in depot when
uncoupled. A few have full cabs to allow then to be attached at either end
of another unit to provide flexibility when a unit has to be withdrawn for
maintenance or repairs.

The Circle, the Hammersmith & City and the District Edgware Rd-Wimbledon
service use the same train. The are made up of three x two car units. The
outer cars are motors, the next cars are trailers whereas the middle two
cars can be either way round but one will be a motor and one a trailer.

District "main line" trains are of the same configuration as those on the
Piccadilly although they are obviously of a different design.

Metropolitan trains are of two four car units comprising a motor, two
trailers and a motor each.

Sorry not familar with the stocks on other lines.

Hi and thanks for all the replies !

I found it a bit stranghe though and very costly for the underground to
actually built 3 trains for the public to choose.

Usually companies (like Bus companies) choose the model themselevs then they
buy few dozens of them they wopuldnt actually built 3 different busses and then
get rid of them

I dont know just sounds abit strange and indeed for the rest of the new trains
of the underground (waterloo/northern) they didnt have any prototype trains

you guys agree with me ?

cheers