Paul Terry wrote:
The .pdf street maps in the
TfL Journey Planner also appear to be quite accurate, though it
can be tricky to get it to display the one you want.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong ones, they don't show tube-line
routes.

You have to devise a route that uses the tube line in question. For
example a route from postcode W1G 6BW (The London Clinic) to Southwark
will involve either walk-tube or walk-bus-tube, and in all cases the
tube is the Jubilee Line from Baker Street. If you view the details of
any of these routes and click on "start map" for the initial walk, it
will show not only the walking route but the subsequent Jubilee Line
route passing near Regent's Park station.

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp double-bends on the
Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas shows it very
clearly at 4" to the mile

Interesting! My Bartholemew's of 1956 (3" to the mile) shows a left
bend after South Ken, then a straight north-easterly run (not following
the road pattern) to a second left-hander to align with Brompton Road,
then a right-hander following the curve of Brompton Road by the Oratory.
If yours shows the correct left-right-left-right sequence, which roads
does it run under?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

David Splett wrote:

I'd always assumed they cross somewhere between Manor House station and
Woodberry Grove, where there are shafts down to both lines. Woodberry Grove
is quite a way north of Harringay Green Lanes, IIRC.

Woodbury Grove joins Green Lanes just north of Manor House, and several
hundred yards south of Harringay Green Lanes.

--
Phil Richards
Stroud Green, London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Tom Anderson wrote:

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate information
about the routes of underground railways? Are there some sort of official
maps somewhere?

Referring to the fold out maps in the now discontinued TfL "Out & About
Guides", the lines cross somewhere in the vicinity of Eade Road & Vale
Road, just north of the Woodbury Down Estate.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...

David Splett wrote:
I'd always assumed they cross somewhere between Manor House station and
Woodberry Grove, where there are shafts down to both lines. Woodberry
Grove
is quite a way north of Harringay Green Lanes, IIRC.

Woodbury Grove joins Green Lanes just north of Manor House, and several
hundred yards south of Harringay Green Lanes.

Sorry, you're absolutely right - I means *south* of HGL.


DS.

Tom Anderson wrote:

We had a very brief argument about this a month or so ago; Barry Salter
said they did, i said they didn't, and Clive threatened to excavate as
much of north London as was necessary to find out.

This is not an authoritative answer, but i did finally notice that
according to Quail, they do cross, and the crossing is indeed a little way
south of Harringay Green Lanes; probably too far to build a station with
interchange, though.

This crossing is also shown on the Quail London Transport Railway Track
Map (fifth edition, 1995) - just to the north of Manor House station.
This map only covers Underground and Docklands lines, so Harringay Green
Lanes is not shown on it.

--
John Ray

In message , at 11:16:39 on Thu, 28 Oct
2004, Paul Terry remarked:
There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

Hmm, it seems to suffer from the classic "join the dots" syndrome.

Look at the Waterloo and City for example. That's shown as just a single
arc, whereas we know it really looks like:

http://www.perry.co.uk/maps/wc_c1895.gif

So while it may be quite accurate in places, there are several I can see
that are wrong.
--
Roland Perry

In message ,
at 20:28:53 on Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:
But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate them
implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of knowledge about
the routes - which is what i'm after!

Maps like that have to be pieced together from a wide range of sources.
For example, the W&C map I posted a link to. An earlier in the year
there was a long discussion about the approaches to Morden (another
place where there's been a "joining the dots" rather than accurately
depicting the route). I've got some other original maps of the Northern
as it crosses the Thames. Others have spoken of the Piccadilly near
South Ken, and the Jubilee north of Baker St being formerly Bakerloo
makes the right-angle crossing shown rather implausible. I don't see a
huge bend at Bank-Central, which one observes when on the train. And so
on. Lots of little things to put together, each of which will improve
one small part.
--
Roland Perry

"David Splett" wrote in message
...
"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...
David Splett wrote:

I'd always assumed they cross somewhere between Manor House station
and
Woodberry Grove, where there are shafts down to both lines. Woodberry
Grove
is quite a way north of Harringay Green Lanes, IIRC.

Woodbury Grove joins Green Lanes just north of Manor House, and several
hundred yards south of Harringay Green Lanes.

Sorry, you're absolutely right - I means *south* of HGL.

If I can add to this discussion, my AtoZ of c 1970 shows the two lines at
Manor House. The Victoria line appears to cross the Picadilly line at about
the junction of Wells Terrace and Stroud Green Road, and again on the NE
corner of Green Lanes and Seven Sisters Road. There is another crossing to
the west of the junction of Gillespie Road and Drayton Park. That is three
crossings in all.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message ,
at 20:28:53 on Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate
them implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of
knowledge about the routes - which is what i'm after!

Maps like that have to be pieced together from a wide range of sources.

That's what i was afraid of. The 'map' i'm after only exists inside the
minds of a few people who've spent years accumulating tube lore.

For example, the W&C map I posted a link to. An earlier in the year
there was a long discussion about the approaches to Morden (another
place where there's been a "joining the dots" rather than accurately
depicting the route). I've got some other original maps of the Northern
as it crosses the Thames. Others have spoken of the Piccadilly near
South Ken, and the Jubilee north of Baker St being formerly Bakerloo
makes the right-angle crossing shown rather implausible. I don't see a
huge bend at Bank-Central, which one observes when on the train. And so
on. Lots of little things to put together, each of which will improve
one small part.

I see. I suppose i'll just have to keep reading and learning.

Perhaps if someone comes along and offers me a sabbatical (do grad
students get sabbaticals?), i'll take a year off to collate and digitise
every scrap of information available, then put together a definitive map.
Or persuade some geography student that it would make a good dissertation
project!

tom

--
.... to build a space elevator, that's got to be hundreds of thousands of
pounds ... -- Mike Froggatt

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

Perhaps if someone comes along and offers me a sabbatical (do grad
students get sabbaticals?), i'll take a year off to collate and digitise
every scrap of information available, then put together a definitive map.
Or persuade some geography student that it would make a good dissertation
project!

When the tube system is shown on a geometric map it is almost always
done in a way to assist users of the map to find routes. To do this it
is inevitable that a lot of fine detail has to be compromised in order
to maintain clarity.

--
Paul Terry