David Bradley wrote:

The information, to which reference has been made, that would be
really useful is what is happening to any further transport system
that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus on
an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main line
rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon Tramlink at
Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell Green would
be very useful to passengers who intended to continue their journeys
via one of those modes.

Perhaps. On smaller networks, though, it strikes me that the easy solution
to bringing disruptions to passenger attention has been missed. Many buses
are fitted with radio equipment, which could be hooked up to a PA system on
the bus for very little money. Announcements regarding service disruption
and similar news could easily be transmitted to the whole network for no
greater cost than it can at present be transmitted to the driver only.

Hamburg's U-Bahn system has such an "on-board long-line PA" facility, which
is quite well-used to broadcast disruption information to passengers on its
trains. I'm surprised I've never seen it applied to buses - certainly in
London, where "connection" isn't a dirty word like it is in so many other
places.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply use neil at the above domain.

In article ,
(Dr. Sunil) wrote:

"Tim Scott" wrote in message
...
I recall there were a couple of T's (Titan's) as you mention trialed
on the 35 and 45??

Some of the former London Buses sent off to sister companies such as
Stagecoach etc converted their London style blinds to the electronic
style ones.

Examples:

DMS/NV's from London General/Central going to Go Ahead North East
Various Stagecoach vehicles including the earlier discarded TA's
(Tridents) going to Stagecoach Hull, Cambridge. Southcoast and
Manchester, Devon kept the London style blinds; VA's from London
United/VN's going to First Leeds (though Potteries have not gone
electronic)

As mentioned Oxford, some First buses in Edinburgh/Glasgow have the
electronic displays

And Stageecoach in Cambridge. The blinds tend to alternate
automatically between 'Citi [route no.], then 'City Centre' and '&
[destination]'.

And First in York, where they cycle through three sets of info, route
number and colour, destination, and "PARK & RIDE" where relevant.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind
read "Short journey; ask driver!"

We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in
question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which
is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses
don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried -
I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to
failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination
blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......

Have a look at http://www.hanoverdisplays.co.uk/ for the latest types.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:59:08 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

David Bradley wrote:

The information, to which reference has been made, that would be
really useful is what is happening to any further transport system
that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus on
an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main line
rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon Tramlink at
Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell Green would
be very useful to passengers who intended to continue their journeys
via one of those modes.

Perhaps. On smaller networks, though, it strikes me that the easy solution
to bringing disruptions to passenger attention has been missed. Many buses
are fitted with radio equipment, which could be hooked up to a PA system on
the bus for very little money. Announcements regarding service disruption
and similar news could easily be transmitted to the whole network for no
greater cost than it can at present be transmitted to the driver only.

Hamburg's U-Bahn system has such an "on-board long-line PA" facility, which
is quite well-used to broadcast disruption information to passengers on its
trains. I'm surprised I've never seen it applied to buses - certainly in
London, where "connection" isn't a dirty word like it is in so many other
places.

Neil

The problem with any communication system primarily intended for the
driver is that you would require to arrange switching for messages so
that the driver only got the operational ones and the passengers those
intended for them. That would have to be done manually by the driver
(probably not appreciated by either the DfT or the T&GWU) or you would
need some clever recognition system that picked up a code in the
message and did the switching.

The latter option should be quite possible but would, I suspect, not
be a cheap option as a retro-fit on vehicles that were already fiited
with a radio system. You then still have to deal with the bandwidth
issue. A small number of urgent messages (most of which are sent out
as general calls to everyone) represents a very different level of
usage to specific information to individual vehicles on a regular
basis.

At the end of the day, as always is the case in all aspects of life,
you not only have to have the technology to do what you want, but you
also have to have the resources (usually cash) as well.

David Bradley on behalf of a friend

In article ,
(David Bradley) wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:59:08 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote:

David Bradley wrote:

The information, to which reference has been made, that would be
really useful is what is happening to any further transport system
that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus
on an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main
line rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon
Tramlink at Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell
Green would be very useful to passengers who intended to continue
their journeys via one of those modes.

Perhaps. On smaller networks, though, it strikes me that the easy
solution to bringing disruptions to passenger attention has been
missed. Many buses are fitted with radio equipment, which could be
hooked up to a PA system on the bus for very little money.
Announcements regarding service disruption and similar news could
easily be transmitted to the whole network for no greater cost than it
can at present be transmitted to the driver only.

Hamburg's U-Bahn system has such an "on-board long-line PA" facility,
which is quite well-used to broadcast disruption information to
passengers on its trains. I'm surprised I've never seen it applied to
buses - certainly in London, where "connection" isn't a dirty word like
it is in so many other places.

The problem with any communication system primarily intended for the
driver is that you would require to arrange switching for messages so
that the driver only got the operational ones and the passengers those
intended for them. That would have to be done manually by the driver
(probably not appreciated by either the DfT or the T&GWU) or you would
need some clever recognition system that picked up a code in the
message and did the switching.

The latter option should be quite possible but would, I suspect, not
be a cheap option as a retro-fit on vehicles that were already fiited
with a radio system. You then still have to deal with the bandwidth
issue. A small number of urgent messages (most of which are sent out
as general calls to everyone) represents a very different level of
usage to specific information to individual vehicles on a regular
basis.

At the end of the day, as always is the case in all aspects of life,
you not only have to have the technology to do what you want, but you
also have to have the resources (usually cash) as well.

David Bradley on behalf of a friend

I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the
company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing the
message type is pretty trivial technology probably already incorporated.
I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good enough for PA over
the radio, though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:

I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the
company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing the
message type is pretty trivial technology probably already incorporated.
I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good enough for PA over
the radio, though.

A lot of modern buses do seem to have PA incorporated, so that the
driver can make announcements - notably, of course, the one who was
featured on the news last Tube strike telling her passengers that she
would open the door when it was safe to do so! I imagine it wouldn't be
beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so
that drivers could relay information given over the radio.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:

I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the
company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing
the message type is pretty trivial technology probably already
incorporated. I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good
enough for PA over the radio, though.

A lot of modern buses do seem to have PA incorporated, so that the
driver can make announcements - notably, of course, the one who was
featured on the news last Tube strike telling her passengers that she
would open the door when it was safe to do so! I imagine it wouldn't be
beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so
that drivers could relay information given over the radio.

Indeed. I was thinking of long-line PA over the radio rather than direct
within the bus.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the
company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing the
message type is pretty trivial technology probably already incorporated.

Indeed. My 30 quid pair of PMRs have such technology - all it is
(AIUI) is a couple of DTMF tones. It appears (from what I can tell)
to be 100% reliable, or as near as makes any difference.

Providing a locally-relevant message may be more of a challenge - so
it'd need to be used sparingly - but something like major problems on
a Tube line or serious problems on a significant bus route would
probably be justified in going out "en masse".

Also, if you're sending a broadcast call to drivers to divert (for
example) around a problem, it may be worth the passengers hearing it,
in case it means getting off a stop early would help their journey!

I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good enough for PA over
the radio, though.

I've often heard "group call" announcements to drivers on buses where
they've had the radio turned up quite loud, and it's often easily
audible and discernible from at least half way back on a full-size
bus.

Neil

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:38:27 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

I imagine it wouldn't be
beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so
that drivers could relay information given over the radio.

Agreed. It seems standard practice on the Continent for stops to be
called by either the driver or an automated system. This, for someone
unfamiliar with the area, makes the bus system far easier to
negotiate.

"This service terminates here" is also rather more helpful than the
London tradition of flashing the lights prior to arrival. An ability
to announce when a bus is turning short would also be useful.

Neil

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:

I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the
company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing
the message type is pretty trivial technology probably already
incorporated. I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good
enough for PA over the radio, though.

A lot of modern buses do seem to have PA incorporated, so that the
driver can make announcements - notably, of course, the one who was
featured on the news last Tube strike telling her passengers that she
would open the door when it was safe to do so! I imagine it wouldn't be
beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so
that drivers could relay information given over the radio.

Indeed. I was thinking of long-line PA over the radio rather than direct
within the bus.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear - I realised that, but reckoned that if the
technology to do this is expensive, an infrastructure already exists
that could be used.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos