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Microchipped number plates
"By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance
records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? |
Microchipped number plates
"By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance
records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? Anything relating to a Government department and an IT initiative usually ends up in millions of taxpayers money being wasted over several years and then the whole lot being scrapped as it suddenly becomes unworkable and too expensive. There is then another 2 years of Public Accounts Committee inquiry - with more money wasted on accountants and solicitors trying to work out what went wrong, by which time, nobody cares because the governments already got it's eye on another Big White Elephant. |
Microchipped number plates
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:22:13 -0800, Matthew Church wrote:
"By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. |
Microchipped number plates
"Paul Robson" wrote in message ichucks.freeserve.co.uk... On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:22:13 -0800, Matthew Church wrote: "By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. And that is why all cars should have a tachometer, that is taken into the post office every year and any outstanding speeding fines , parking tickets and indicator abuse can be payed up to date with neccasary points added to your licence etc etc etc. Thus the post office would survive the criminal car driver would'nt thrive, and more pedestrians would stay alive. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21/10/2004 |
Microchipped number plates
"CapStick" wrote in message ... "Paul Robson" wrote in message ichucks.freeserve.co.uk... On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:22:13 -0800, Matthew Church wrote: "By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. And that is why all cars should have a tachometer, that is taken into the post office every year and any outstanding speeding fines , parking tickets and indicator abuse can be payed up to date with neccasary points added to your licence etc etc etc. Thus the post office would survive the criminal car driver would'nt thrive, and more pedestrians would stay alive. thats ********, the post office survives anyway "criminal car drivers" can simply get the license plate changed to a registered one or just take in a registered number plate and more pedestrians wouldnt stay alive, think about it; nobody will know that the pedestrian will get run over until it happens, until then you cant stop it happening without affecting the majority, and after its happened theyre going to drive much more carefully and i highly doubt it would happen twice. the government should not be allowed to govern our lives to this extent, its a threat to the security of our society. also what if the tachometer stops working? what about foreign cars? what about car manufacturers that decide not to put them into their cars? they cant be shut down, most of them are foreign and they cant shut down a car manufacturer n the UK, think of the job losses and tax losses |
Microchipped number plates
Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you
couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. Quite likely! My wife works in the NHS and you should hear about the amount they waste on failed IT projects. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). This article is very misleading. The microchip is actually a transponder which sends out a unique identifier when read by an appropriate device. It does not in itself contain any information and is a sealed unit. There is no programming interface, the ID is set by the manufacturer in the manufacturing process. That unique identifier will be used to look up the information on the computer database. The system is actually no different from what is in existence now with automatic number plate readers fitted to cameras and police cars. These microchips are tansponders and are highly robust, and making a reading of the ID is easier than reading a written number plate, which could be mis-represented, dirty, or just hard to read due to ambient conditions. Transponders suffer none of these problems. Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? Because on policies that have multiple vehicles and multiple drivers the cars are explicitly detailed on the policy. This in nothing new, the insurance / tax & mot status of all vehicles is already part of a database (MID for insurance) which the police can look up live now by reading your number plate. There are many police cars with this system already fitted, and it is used very sucessfully. How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. as above - nothing new. Just because you are stopped does not mean you are instantly guilty, it just means that there is no record of insurance for that vehicle (or of you being insured to drive it) if you can later produce documentary evidence to the police then no action is taken - this is no different from what happens now when you get a producer. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Such a miniscule problem, why worry? Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. I started work using transponders 15 years ago for an identification system in which they were subject to an industrial washing process, then temperatures of nearly 200deg C and they continued to work just fine! Anything that helps stop scum get away with no insurance/tax/mot has to be good. If it inconveniences legal motorists (although highly unlikely) then so what. Matt. |
Microchipped number plates
what about car manufacturers that decide not to put them into their cars?
they cant be shut down, most of them are foreign and they cant shut down a car manufacturer n the UK, think of the job losses and tax losses WTF are you on about? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. However, given your unsucessful atempts to produce sentences in English, your comment does not come as a complete surprise. Are you seriously suggesting that if a car manufacturer decides to produce a car that does not confirm to UK legal standards (e.g. they decide that the indicators do not look good on their new car, so they don't bother putting them on) that the government will be unable to stop these cars from being used legally? The government sets legal standards for motor vehicles. If manufacturers do not produce vehicles that abide by those standards, then they cannot be used on the public highway, simple as that. Matt |
Microchipped number plates
In message , Matthew
Maddock writes Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Such a miniscule problem, why worry? I'd like to know what will happen to foreign visitors if they bring their cars to the UK. Will the cars be impounded? How will the system detect a foreign car? -- Mike |
Microchipped number plates
Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how
will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? Presumably the system would be tied up with an appropriate camera which would detect the presence of a vehicle, but I take your point, and failing such a system it would depend on a person being present - say in a police car which had the facility to read the transponder. What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Such a miniscule problem, why worry? I'd like to know what will happen to foreign visitors if they bring their cars to the UK. Will the cars be impounded? Presumably if they commit an offence, they would be dealt with in the same way they are now. AIUI they are fast-tracked through the magistrates court if necessary. If they are not committing an offence, then there is no problem. Like I said, such a tiny problem, why worry? Let their own country deal with them - we reportedly have over one million uninsured motorists in the UK, lets worry about those first! How will the system detect a foreign car? You could say the same thing about the current system of number plate recognition - the UK system is setup to read UK number plates, not foreign ones - same problem. I do believe that this sort of device is the way forward. I'm not saying that it will be without its own set of problems, but if one million motorists are happily driving around uninsured, then the current system is far from acceptable. Whether the public sector has the ability to pull it off remains to be seen!! Matt. |
Microchipped number plates
In message , Matthew
Maddock writes If manufacturers do not produce vehicles that abide by those standards, then they cannot be used on the public highway, simple as that. Matt That'll be why the government can't stop Citroen from fitting asbestos brake pads then. -- Clive. |
Microchipped number plates
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:42:26 +0000, Mike wrote:
In message , Matthew Maddock writes Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? Mass? Temerature? Capacitance? The transponder reader would have to be combined with a vehicle detector of some sort to prevent fraud. |
Microchipped number plates
"Matthew Maddock" wrote in message ... what about car manufacturers that decide not to put them into their cars? they cant be shut down, most of them are foreign and they cant shut down a car manufacturer n the UK, think of the job losses and tax losses WTF are you on about? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. However, given your unsucessful atempts to produce sentences in English, your comment does not come as a complete surprise. Are you seriously suggesting that if a car manufacturer decides to produce a car that does not confirm to UK legal standards (e.g. they decide that the indicators do not look good on their new car, so they don't bother putting them on) that the government will be unable to stop these cars from being used legally? The government sets legal standards for motor vehicles. If manufacturers do not produce vehicles that abide by those standards, then they cannot be used on the public highway, simple as that. Matt simple way round the problem , do as many truck companies do now register your vehicle in another eu state end of problem |
Microchipped number plates
simple way round the problem , do as many truck companies do now register your vehicle in another eu state end of problem You won't be able to insure it. |
Microchipped number plates
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:06:29 +0000, Matthew Maddock wrote:
Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. Quite likely! My wife works in the NHS and you should hear about the amount they waste on failed IT projects. I can believe it. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). This article is very misleading. The microchip is actually a transponder which sends out a unique identifier when read by an appropriate device. Chances of it continuing to work are pretty low then. It does not in itself contain any information and is a sealed unit. There is no programming interface, the ID is set by the manufacturer in the manufacturing process. That unique identifier will be used to look up the information on the computer database. The system is actually no different from what is in existence now with automatic number plate readers fitted to cameras and police cars. So... what does it do that ANPR doesn't then ? I suppose it's cheaper. These microchips are transponders and are highly robust, I doubt it, not at that price, not the amount of battering it will get on a number plate. It'd be more sensible to put it in the car, harder to swap plates for one thing. and making a reading of the ID is easier than reading a written number plate, which could be mis-represented, dirty, or just hard to read due to ambient conditions. Transponders suffer none of these problems. Fine, but all that tells you is *that* plate is attached to *that* car. Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! Yes, but there is a claim of automatic detection machines, not being used for cops to see the car. To know it's a fake you have to be able to detect the existence of the car. How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? Because on policies that have multiple vehicles and multiple drivers the cars are explicitly detailed on the policy. Not always they're not. This in nothing new, the insurance / tax & mot status of all vehicles is already part of a database (MID for insurance) which the police can look up live now by reading your number plate. There are many police cars with this system already fitted, and it is used very sucessfully. Not that successfully..... How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. as above - nothing new. Just because you are stopped does not mean you are instantly guilty, it just means that there is no record of insurance for that vehicle (or of you being insured to drive it) if you can later produce documentary evidence to the police then no action is taken - this is no different from what happens now when you get a producer. So the point of this really is just to make life easier for the Police ? I don't like it. I think it's a backdoor tracking system, it's nowt to do with insurance. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Such a miniscule problem, why worry? It is *now*. You couldn't by Scamera detectors in Halfords till the country went overboard with cameras. Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. I started work using transponders 15 years ago for an identification system in which they were subject to an industrial washing process, then temperatures of nearly 200deg C and they continued to work just fine! Well, you might be right, but to be honest I doubt you can do this en masse for £1.00. Anything that helps stop scum get away with no insurance/tax/mot has to be good. If it inconveniences legal motorists (although highly unlikely) then so what. Well, it doesn't seem to do anything much that ANPR does, will result in less trafpol, and is highly dubious from a Civil Liberties POV. |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:15:51 +0000, Matthew Maddock wrote:
I do believe that this sort of device is the way forward. I'm not saying that it will be without its own set of problems, but if one million motorists are happily driving around uninsured, then the current system is far from acceptable. Whether the public sector has the ability to pull it off remains to be seen!! Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on the windscreen ? Or rather than the Police trying to automate everything, they could get off their arses and do something about it. |
Microchipped number plates
Matthew Maddock wrote:
Anything that helps stop scum get away with no insurance/tax/mot has to be good. If it inconveniences legal motorists (although highly unlikely) then so what. How about a more radical approach - nationalise third party insurance and increase road tax so the charge for it is included in that. The Government would then pay out for third-party injuries and property damage from that fund. Thus, any taxed car would be insured third party for any driver, making it easy to check and difficult to evade. If it's taxed, and the driver has a valid license, it's insured. As the tax database fits with the V5 database, it's not difficult to enforce tax checks. The insurance companies could then compete on a commercial basis on policies that extend that to cover F&T and Fully Comp as desired, as most people with any sense would take if they have a vehicle that is worth anything. I'm sure I've heard of a country somewhere (can't think where) that actually does something like this. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Microchipped number plates
In article
cks.freeserve.co.uk, Paul Robson wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:22:13 -0800, Matthew Church wrote: "By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? Well, the last I heard (and there's about 45 days left in 2004) you couldn't buy Microchipped plates. If true it's a typical Public Sector IT project i.e. it doesn't work. It will annoy a lot of people, and the chips will be as tamper proof as the others, i.e. not at all. Or people will simply bust them (can you imagine the amount of hammering electronics on a car number plate will take). Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? How will it cope with people who are insured rather than cars - people on company insurance ? How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. It can't surely store "insurance validity" - if you cancel insurance will you detach the plates and take them in so they can be reprogrammed ? What will happen regarding foreign registered vehicles ? Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip. In fact, this is my solution to traffic congestion problems - a big campaign against these vehicles could reduce traffic by about 20% at a stroke and also make the roads a lot safer ! Perhaps they could set up a few motorway type toll booths with similar cameras and automatic gates, with a penalty of instant impoundment of illegal vehicles. David |
Microchipped number plates
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:06:29 GMT, "Matthew Maddock"
wrote: Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! There is nothing to stop a person from replacing the transponder on a numberplate with a different transponder. Plus a market for fake transponders (they are not rocket-science). A switch in the car could make the transponder act like a James Bond type revolving numberplate -- Cynic |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 05:38:56 +0000, Marc Brett
wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:42:26 +0000, Mike wrote: In message , Matthew Maddock writes Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? Mass? Temerature? Capacitance? The transponder reader would have to be combined with a vehicle detector of some sort to prevent fraud. So what *exactly* happens if it detects that a vehicle has passed which apparently doesn't have a working transponder? |
Microchipped number plates
So... what does it do that ANPR doesn't then ? I suppose it's cheaper.
No a lot as far as I can see. Note that the article was written nearly three years ago now, and was talking about a database - which now exists, but with NPR rather than the transponder system they suggest. I doubt it, not at that price, not the amount of battering it will get on a number plate. It'd be more sensible to put it in the car, harder to swap plates for one thing. These things are *very* robust. The ones I was using 15 years ago were only a couple of pounds each. They are used for all sorts of things now-a-days. I'm sure anyone who has a pet will tell you that you can pop down to your local vets and have one of these injected into your favourite animal. If they can stand up to animal abuse, they can stand up to being stuck into a number plate. Fine, but all that tells you is *that* plate is attached to *that* car. Indeed. Because on policies that have multiple vehicles and multiple drivers the cars are explicitly detailed on the policy. Not always they're not. They should be. I used to have a motor trade policy and it was a legal requirement that any cars which I kept on the road were registered on the policy immediately. 18 months ago they didn't have to be, but they do now. A lot of insurance companies can now refuse to run the period of grace system because of this requirement (where they allow you to back date your insurance a couple of weeks to your renewal date if you "miss" it) This in nothing new, the insurance / tax & mot status of all vehicles is already part of a database (MID for insurance) which the police can look up live now by reading your number plate. There are many police cars with this system already fitted, and it is used very sucessfully. Not that successfully..... Only because there are not enough police getting of their arses and going out to pull cars! How will it know the driver is insured to drive the car - all it will know is that there is *some* insurance on the car. as above - nothing new. Just because you are stopped does not mean you are instantly guilty, it just means that there is no record of insurance for that vehicle (or of you being insured to drive it) if you can later produce documentary evidence to the police then no action is taken - this is no different from what happens now when you get a producer. So the point of this really is just to make life easier for the Police ? yeah! Getting Microchips for £1.00 is no problem ; hell they are cheaper than that. Getting something that will work and keep working for £1.00 is a different matter entirely. Well, you might be right, but to be honest I doubt you can do this en masse for £1.00. They will - they do! Well, it doesn't seem to do anything much that ANPR does, will result in less trafpol, and is highly dubious from a Civil Liberties POV. I agree, the system for detecting if your car has insurance already exists, it is already in place like it or not, it is just the transponder part of the scheme which has not yet been implemented. Matt. |
Microchipped number plates
"Bystander" wrote in message ... simple way round the problem , do as many truck companies do now register your vehicle in another eu state end of problem You won't be able to insure it. yes you will how do you think the trucking companies get on |
Microchipped number plates
Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with
an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip. Exactly what I was saying, the system in the article already exists and is in use - it is only the microchip/transponder that is not yet in place. The problem with that system is that it is very easy to fake a number plate, or obscure it so that it is unreadable. I'm not saying that a transponder cannot be "faked" in some way, but it is not as simple walking around the car park until you find a car the same as the one you nicked, take down its number and walking into Halfords to get them to make you up a set of plates of the same number. (yeah, I know Halfords now ask for the V5, but it ain't difficult to find someone who will do them without one) Matt. |
Microchipped number plates
"Cynic" wrote in message ... On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:06:29 GMT, "Matthew Maddock" wrote: Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! There is nothing to stop a person from replacing the transponder on a numberplate with a different transponder. Plus a market for fake transponders (they are not rocket-science). A switch in the car could make the transponder act like a James Bond type revolving numberplate -- Cynic There will just be a ready market for stolen plates , to clone other vehicles |
Microchipped number plates
Paul Robson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 14 Nov 2004:
Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on the windscreen ? I believe in some countries they do something very like that - visible proof of paid-up insurance on the windscreen or number-plate. Not a micro-chip that can go wrong (or its reader could go wrong), but some dog-tag or other. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Microchipped number plates
"Matthew Maddock" wrote in message ... Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip. Exactly what I was saying, the system in the article already exists and is in use - it is only the microchip/transponder that is not yet in place. The problem with that system is that it is very easy to fake a number plate, or obscure it so that it is unreadable. I'm not saying that a transponder cannot be "faked" in some way, but it is not as simple walking around the car park until you find a car the same as the one you nicked, take down its number and walking into Halfords to get them to make you up a set of plates of the same number. (yeah, I know Halfords now ask for the V5, but it ain't difficult to find someone who will do them without one) Matt. just nick the numberplate instead , or better still get the plate made then swop it with the legit one , most owners wouldnt notice the difference one cloned vehicle to do with as you please evn if you stick the cloned plate on your own motor how on eath are the roadside units going to find you , if the plod pull you then its a case of sorry officer the chip must have failed , thats quite ok sir ( the vehicles not rreported stolen ) The chances of the plod checking the tax disk or vin number is pretty remote , i was stopped twice on road side checks and they never picked up that the tax disk in the van was nfact the one for my car the one in the car was supposed to be in the van (i put them in the wrong vehicles when axing them both ) |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:27:47 +0000, Matthew Maddock wrote:
So... what does it do that ANPR doesn't then ? I suppose it's cheaper. No a lot as far as I can see. Note that the article was written nearly three years ago now, and was talking about a database - which now exists, but with NPR rather than the transponder system they suggest. I doubt it, not at that price, not the amount of battering it will get on a number plate. It'd be more sensible to put it in the car, harder to swap plates for one thing. These things are *very* robust. The ones I was using 15 years ago were only a couple of pounds each. They are used for all sorts of things now-a-days. I'm sure anyone who has a pet will tell you that you can pop down to your local vets and have one of these injected into your favourite animal. If they can stand up to animal abuse, they can stand up to being stuck into a number plate. I'm not sure that's a very good example.... dogs aren't tanked along at 70 mph being vibrated and having mud and slush thrown at them. Fine, but all that tells you is *that* plate is attached to *that* car. Indeed. Because on policies that have multiple vehicles and multiple drivers the cars are explicitly detailed on the policy. Not always they're not. They should be. I used to have a motor trade policy and it was a legal requirement that any cars which I kept on the road were registered on the policy immediately. 18 months ago they didn't have to be, but they do now. A lot of insurance companies can now refuse to run the period of grace system because of this requirement (where they allow you to back date your insurance a couple of weeks to your renewal date if you "miss" it) Well, one of my relatives claims not, but she may well be fibbing. (it is required for her work apparently) This in nothing new, the insurance / tax & mot status of all vehicles is already part of a database (MID for insurance) which the police can look up live now by reading your number plate. There are many police cars with this system already fitted, and it is used very sucessfully. Not that successfully..... Only because there are not enough police getting of their arses and going out to pull cars! True. Isn't there a simpler low-tech way of doing this. Road tax is relatively simple to Police ; it just requires someone to actually do it :) |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:41:05 +0000, gwr4090 wrote:
Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip. In fact, this is my solution to traffic congestion problems - a big campaign against these vehicles could reduce traffic by about 20% at a stroke and also make the roads a lot safer ! Perhaps they could set up a few motorway type toll booths with similar cameras and automatic gates, with a penalty of instant impoundment of illegal vehicles. I think they simply need to do something about it - why not just have an insurance disk like a tax disk in the Windscreen - or periodic blitzes ? |
Microchipped number plates
In message
s.freeserve.co.uk, Paul Robson writes Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on the windscreen ? Good idea. It would need some "tweaking" because, currently, drivers are insured, not vehicles. Or rather than the Police trying to automate everything, they could get off their arses and do something about it. Now you're being silly. -- Mike |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:21:24 +0000, IanAl wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 05:38:56 +0000, Marc Brett wrote: On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:42:26 +0000, Mike wrote: In message , Matthew Maddock writes Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? Mass? Temerature? Capacitance? The transponder reader would have to be combined with a vehicle detector of some sort to prevent fraud. So what *exactly* happens if it detects that a vehicle has passed which apparently doesn't have a working transponder? Rising bollards trap the vehicle from bow, stern, port & starboard, and then 3,000 litres of pink custard is poured onto it. Consider it a warning. |
Microchipped number plates
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Microchipped number plates
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... "By 2004, the DVLA aims to have merged driver, vehicle and insurance records into a "single or virtually single" database from which the number-plate microchips will be programmed". http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/microchips.html Anyone have any updates on how this plan is getting along? I would guess that this has been consigned to the bin, as numberplate recognition cameras have proved succesfull and are likely to be more useful than transponders. As said in another part of the thread, the transponders would work much like the product identifying labels in supermarkets and id chips inserted into pets. To read them you need to be in reasonable proximity to the device - so a scanner on a set of barriers that a car passes thru (like a toll gate) would work well, but scanning a vehicle from a motorway bridge would be next to impossible. Automatic plate reading linked to DVLA computers is effective and can be used over a much greater range, the police are using it every day of the week up here in Wolverhampton. |
Microchipped number plates
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004, Marc Brett wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:42:26 +0000, Mike wrote: In message , Matthew Maddock writes Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ? Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake! From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder? Mass? Temerature? Capacitance? Radar cross-section? And as for actions taken on detecting an untagged or illegal vehicle: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m93.htm tom -- the ****ing Blues Brothers guys and razors and swordfight on top of a truck and Memento Babe flying through the air and out of nowhere Neo and I am out!!of!!cum!! 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 |
Microchipped number plates
Clive Coleman ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : That'll be why the government can't stop Citroen from fitting asbestos brake pads then. I'm sorry? a. Citroen don't make brake pads. b. Citroen brake pads don't differ from Peugeot brake bads. c. Asbestos brake pads haven't been manufactured for years. For any manufacturer. OEM or pattern. d. That's nothing to do with the UK government anyway. Type approval's EU wide. |
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