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Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:09:57 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: I've never found one that would roll-over the balance (35 mins) like that. But most will stamp the ticket "9.00 am", rather than "17.30". Milton Keynes won't, which is bloody irritating as it means you can't go out for the evening, decide to have a drink and take a taxi home, and therefore go and put a couple of quid in the pay and display machine to cover your car until a sensible hour of the morning (charges operate from 0700 to 1800). You instead need to go out and move to one of the out-of-the-way free spaces once you have made said decision. Neil |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:59:36 -0000, " cupra"
wrote: Milton Keynes (Central) do, too. Really? Thanks - I stand corrected. They must have changed that (see my other post, which I unfortunately made before reading this one) as I'm sure I've been "caught" (not ticketed, just annoyed) by that one before. Neil |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
Neil Williams wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:59:36 -0000, " cupra" wrote: Milton Keynes (Central) do, too. Really? Thanks - I stand corrected. They must have changed that (see my other post, which I unfortunately made before reading this one) as I'm sure I've been "caught" (not ticketed, just annoyed) by that one before. Neil I'm sure it's the case - maybe it's Northampton I'm thinking of.....! |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
In message , at 21:31:12 on Wed, 17
Nov 2004, Neil Williams remarked: I've never found one that would roll-over the balance (35 mins) like that. But most will stamp the ticket "9.00 am", rather than "17.30". Milton Keynes won't, which is bloody irritating as it means you can't go out for the evening, decide to have a drink and take a taxi home, and therefore go and put a couple of quid in the pay and display machine to cover your car until a sensible hour of the morning (charges operate from 0700 to 1800). You instead need to go out and move to one of the out-of-the-way free spaces once you have made said decision. A real problem. I once stayed in a hotel in the historic centre of Chester, so no on-site car parking. But because of the lack of roll-over I was supposed to go down to the municipal car park at 7am to legalise the morning session! -- Roland Perry |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
David Bradley" wrote in message
... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:04:02 -0000, Conor wrote: In article , Nigel says... Yes do take any legal action if you feel wronged by the Council, do it through a legal representative who will ensure that you're out-of-pocket-expenses are recovered and that any action you are threatened with by the local authority is rescinded. After all why should you pay for their inadequacies? You're a lawyer aren't you? THe only person who will benefit will be his lawyer and you can be sure the bill he'll be presented with will far exceed the worth of a few phone calls, first class stamps and time taken to write to them. Oh, and the County Court will throw out frivolous claims but you can be sure his lawyer won't forget the bill. After reading this long thread, a simple question comes to mind: Assuming the facts are as stated, what is the cheapest option that can be taken to ensure the parking ticket is rescinded? Would it be the cost of a postcard, with a postage stamp attached, sent to the Council with a simple message stating they have made an error? Perhaps not, because it would probably get "lost in the post", so what can you do that would cost you no more than a £1? David Bradley I will send a copy of the Pay&Display ticket + my original parking ticket tear-off + a digi-photo of the sign showing the controlled times, that way I have all my bases covered. The nearest PO to my work is the perpetually busy Maidenhead town centre, which for me involves missing lunch so I can drive 3 miles there, queue for a place in the multi-story car park and then queue for another 20 mins at the post office to send it recorded. Its an hour of my work day that I am wasting which at contractor rates works out at about £60. Of course I could send it ordinary post, but the council recommends you send it recorded. This thread is actually getting bigger than the issue itself :-), I was just hoping for a few choice phrases to use in my letter. In reality all I want is for them to say "sorry, our mistake", "the attendent has been re-trained" or something like that. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
In message , at 22:03:38 on
Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Carlos remarked: The nearest PO to my work is the perpetually busy Maidenhead town centre, which for me involves missing lunch so I can drive 3 miles there, queue for a place in the multi-story car park and then queue for another 20 mins at the post office to send it recorded. Its an hour of my work day that I am wasting which at contractor rates works out at about £60. Of course I could send it ordinary post, but the council recommends you send it recorded. There must be a sub-post-office you could park outside, easier to get to than that! For example in Bray, or if you are to the north, at Norfolk Park (1/4 mile as the crow flies north of the town centre one). -- Roland Perry |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:15:52 -0000, "Carlos"
wrote: I parked in a pay-and-display area at 17:05. Put £1 in the machine (charge is £1/hr) and the ticket came out valid until 17:30 after which time parking is free. The signage also confirmed that parking is chargeable only between 09:00 - 17:30. Came back to find a parking ticket, time-stamped at 17:36. Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on, aware that a certain percentage probably just pay up. But I want to make a stand and sue the council for wasting my time. Would I be reasonable in charging a £50 admin charge for having to issue an explanatory note..? Cheers That worked for me in other similar case of maladministration by admittedly a private company, i.e. a bank. Make a charge for the time you spend sorting this out and getting the ticket cancelled. You'll have to establish a reasonable hourly charge out rate - and only you can determine this. Err on the high side since they'll probably knock your charged down. There's certainly going to be the first letter to them, pointing out the facts you've stated. Then if they're just as inefficient as many council departments seem to be, and they don't reply in a reasonable time, you'll have to charge for a second letter, and/or time spent on the phone. You might be lucky and find that the left hand doesn't know what the right's doing, and since you won't be paying this, they could well issue an increased fine giving you another opportunity to lay it on with them. Keep a note of the dates of relevant correspondence, since all councils have targets set for responding to the public's letters. And don't forget the 'trauma' of being incorrectly treated as a parking offender. Good luck. __ Richard Buttrey Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK __________________________ |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:03:38 -0000, "Carlos"
wrote: David Bradley" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:04:02 -0000, Conor wrote: In article , Nigel says... Yes do take any legal action if you feel wronged by the Council, do it through a legal representative who will ensure that you're out-of-pocket-expenses are recovered and that any action you are threatened with by the local authority is rescinded. After all why should you pay for their inadequacies? You're a lawyer aren't you? THe only person who will benefit will be his lawyer and you can be sure the bill he'll be presented with will far exceed the worth of a few phone calls, first class stamps and time taken to write to them. Oh, and the County Court will throw out frivolous claims but you can be sure his lawyer won't forget the bill. After reading this long thread, a simple question comes to mind: Assuming the facts are as stated, what is the cheapest option that can be taken to ensure the parking ticket is rescinded? Would it be the cost of a postcard, with a postage stamp attached, sent to the Council with a simple message stating they have made an error? Perhaps not, because it would probably get "lost in the post", so what can you do that would cost you no more than a £1? David Bradley I will send a copy of the Pay&Display ticket + my original parking ticket tear-off + a digi-photo of the sign showing the controlled times, that way I have all my bases covered. The nearest PO to my work is the perpetually busy Maidenhead town centre, which for me involves missing lunch so I can drive 3 miles there, queue for a place in the multi-story car park and then queue for another 20 mins at the post office to send it recorded. Its an hour of my work day that I am wasting which at contractor rates works out at about £60. Of course I could send it ordinary post, but the council recommends you send it recorded. This thread is actually getting bigger than the issue itself :-), I was just hoping for a few choice phrases to use in my letter. In reality all I want is for them to say "sorry, our mistake", "the attendent has been re-trained" or something like that. The Council may recommend Recorded Delivery but the cost to you is excessive. So my I suggest you send the documentation by email to the Council requesting an acknowledgement of receipt by return. If you don't get a response within a couple of days then escalate the issue by re-sending the email to every Councillor. David Bradley |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:57:45 +0000, JohnB wrote:
Ham Spunter wrote: "JohnB" wrote in message ... Anyway I would happily lose money and time just to give Barnet Council a headache. And just how do you think Barnet Council will recoup the costs you impose on them? John B Is that any reason not to request that his costs are not met? Not if that's what he wants to do. So, back to my question - How will Barnet will recover _their_ costs? hint re-arrange: payers, tax And theoretically, when the Council tax is raised to compensate for the costs the council incurrs due either to the incompetence of its own employees or the incompetence of the contractors the council employs, the taxpayers will ask the question -" Why have these costs been incurred?" and upon hearing the answer will vote out the shower in power. The theory is that this democratic power concentrates the minds of the councillors who are intent on doing either the best they can for their constituents or staying on the gravy train as long as they can. Really what happens is that the councillors don't give a ****, they blame the tax rise on anyone other than themselves, and they effectively get a livetime season ticket to the gravy train. -- Cheers Peter Remove the INVALID to reply |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
You are entitled, under the RTA I believe (or perhaps under the
aprking regulations for the particular city) to make a claim for costs only if the issue of the ticket or the councils refusal to allow your appeal (I cannot remember which) is "frivilous, vexatious or wholly unreasonable." Whether their behaviour is regarded in this category is the decision of the parking adjudicator, who you will appear before if the council refuse your appeal. IANAL, only someone who has successfully appealed to the Parking Appeals Service. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:57:45 +0000, JohnB wrote:
Ham Spunter wrote: "JohnB" wrote in message ... Anyway I would happily lose money and time just to give Barnet Council a headache. And just how do you think Barnet Council will recoup the costs you impose on them? John B Is that any reason not to request that his costs are not met? Not if that's what he wants to do. So, back to my question - How will Barnet will recover _their_ costs? hint re-arrange: payers, tax John: Back to your question: hint re-arrange: councillors voters elect who Residents will get the councillors, councils, parking enforcement, and legal departments, that they deserve. Mike -- http://www.corestore.org For sale: Al Qaeda rifle. Never fired. Dropped once. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:57:15 -0000, "Carlos"
wrote: If you want to create waves, make sure that you get evidence that the car park was indeed free after 17:30 on the day in question. It is not unheard of for rules and signs to be changed retrospectively. Absolutely positive it was free after 17:30 because a) the signs stated so quite unambiguously b) the machine capped my parking time to 17:30 even though I had theoretically put enough money to take me to 18:05. I'm afraid you will have to read with a bit more comprehension and understand some of the sneakier possibilities if you want a good chance of getting anywhere. Please read my paragraph (top) again, and try to understand what I am saying. I was *not* questioning your assertion that the car park was in fact free at the time you said it was. A post to this newsgroup quite a while back described how, after an accident had occured involving a council vehicle failing to give way, the signs were changed and road markings repainted on a junction so that right of way was reversed in favour of the road the council vehicle had been on. -- Cynic |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
In uk.legal Nick Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:34:31 +0000 (UTC), wrote: Have you never ever made a mistake at work? Maybe the traffic warden was new, maybe their watch had stopped.. Maybe you should try reading the original description of events properly? I do apologise - a stopped watch wouldn't have resulted in this incident however I was merely pointing out that the OP could not be sure that "Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on" and there are possibly other factors, i.e. it was an *accident*, a *mistake*! Cheers Rob |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
Neil Williams wrote:
I do wonder why the councils don't realise that the optimum number of parking tickets issued in a given period is zero, This is a good point - parkimg control should be about prevention. That so many people still get caught shows that current prevention measures are clearly inadequate. M. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"Ham Spunter" wrote in message ... "Carlos" wrote in message ... Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on, aware that a certain percentage probably just pay up. But I want to make a stand and sue the council for wasting my time. Would I be reasonable in charging a £50 admin charge for having to issue an explanatory note..? Cheers Similar thing happened to me in North Yorks - I asked them to refund my costs - postage - time taken to write letter explaining why the parking fine was not applicable - time spent on phone calls to the council etc etc They happily waived the parking charge, but said it was not their "policy" to refund costs incurred despite their error. So effectivley N Yorks County Council are telling me they cannot be sued no matter what they do wrong. No. They are saying it's "not their polcy". In other words, you've got to fight for it. What would their reaction be, if you were to say "it's not my policy" when it comes to paying rates/community charge/council tax/ window tax/ whatever it's called this week? I did consider going to the local press with details of the debacle - but in the end just couldn't be bothered any more and have since stopped using the council car park. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"Cynic" wrote in message
... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:57:15 -0000, "Carlos" wrote: If you want to create waves, make sure that you get evidence that the car park was indeed free after 17:30 on the day in question. It is not unheard of for rules and signs to be changed retrospectively. Absolutely positive it was free after 17:30 because a) the signs stated so quite unambiguously b) the machine capped my parking time to 17:30 even though I had theoretically put enough money to take me to 18:05. I'm afraid you will have to read with a bit more comprehension and understand some of the sneakier possibilities if you want a good chance of getting anywhere. Please read my paragraph (top) again, and try to understand what I am saying. I was *not* questioning your assertion that the car park was in fact free at the time you said it was. A post to this newsgroup quite a while back described how, after an accident had occured involving a council vehicle failing to give way, the signs were changed and road markings repainted on a junction so that right of way was reversed in favour of the road the council vehicle had been on. As he has the ticket which says 1) £1 2) Entry 17:05 3) Expires 17:30 Then they would have to increase pay and display to £2.40 an hour, a 140% rise would not go unnoticed by the media -- Everything above is the personal opinion of the author, and nothing to do with where he works and all that lovely disclaimery stuff. Posted in his lunch hour too. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"John Ritchie" wrote in message om... You are entitled, under the RTA I believe (or perhaps under the aprking regulations for the particular city) to make a claim for costs only if the issue of the ticket or the councils refusal to allow your appeal (I cannot remember which) is "frivilous, vexatious or wholly unreasonable." Whether their behaviour is regarded in this category is the decision of the parking adjudicator, who you will appear before if the council refuse your appeal. ISTM that putting a ticket on a car with an issue time outside that for which restrictions apply is wholly unreasonable by a very very very long way tim |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote in message ...
In article , (ABC) wrote: Until all councils remove the bonus incentive of issuing tickets, then there will always be wardens trying it on. Just like the builder who is paid by the hour. The longer he can stay on the job, the more he will earn. Do you have any evidence of councils paying bonuses? Cambridge has just started with its own parking attendants and doesn't pay any such thing. http://www.westminster.gov.uk/counci...ws/pr-2220.cfm The old westminster/NCP incentive scheme included giving a free holiday to the best employee. Was well publicised on local news/radio/papers in london. I think the councils problems are in getting their staff to actually work. On the one hand, if they have incentives they will have people over issuing tickets. On the other hand they need to get the traffic wardens out of Glouster Road Burger King and a well known student bar where they seem to congregate/sleep for hours on end |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
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Suing for frivolous parking ticket
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Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:55:46 -0000, "Ham Spunter"
wrote: "Carlos" wrote in message .. . Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on, aware that a certain percentage probably just pay up. But I want to make a stand and sue the council for wasting my time. Would I be reasonable in charging a £50 admin charge for having to issue an explanatory note..? Cheers Similar thing happened to me in North Yorks - I asked them to refund my costs - postage - time taken to write letter explaining why the parking fine was not applicable - time spent on phone calls to the council etc etc They happily waived the parking charge, but said it was not their "policy" to refund costs incurred despite their error. So effectivley N Yorks County Council are telling me they cannot be sued no matter what they do wrong. No, they were telling you it isn't their policy to pay anyones costs when asked, as you did - you may still sue, and although IANAL, I would suggest that a claim through the Small Claims Court may well have succeeded. The council will not have a policy of ignoring court judgements. -- Cheers Peter Remove the INVALID to reply |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"tim" wrote in message ... "John Ritchie" wrote in message om... You are entitled, under the RTA I believe (or perhaps under the aprking regulations for the particular city) to make a claim for costs only if the issue of the ticket or the councils refusal to allow your appeal (I cannot remember which) is "frivilous, vexatious or wholly unreasonable." Whether their behaviour is regarded in this category is the decision of the parking adjudicator, who you will appear before if the council refuse your appeal. ISTM that putting a ticket on a car with an issue time outside that for which restrictions apply is wholly unreasonable by a very very very long way Unless the charges apply during a certain time and outside of that time no parking is permitted at all. Unlikely, but possible. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"Mark Hewitt" wrote:
"tim" wrote in message ... ISTM that putting a ticket on a car with an issue time outside that for which restrictions apply is wholly unreasonable by a very very very long way Unless the charges apply during a certain time and outside of that time no parking is permitted at all. Unlikely, but possible. I would say that "no parking is permitted at all" is quite a severe restriction! -- Alec McKenzie |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
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Suing for frivolous parking ticket
Peter wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:55:46 -0000, "Ham Spunter" snip So effectivley N Yorks County Council are telling me they cannot be sued no matter what they do wrong. No, they were telling you it isn't their policy to pay anyones costs when asked, as you did - you may still sue, and although IANAL, I would suggest that a claim through the Small Claims Court may well have succeeded. The council will not have a policy of ignoring court judgements. I can think of one council that tries to maintain a policy of ignoring court judgements (and just about anything else that doesn't suit the local mafiosi) ... much to tax payers' detriment. |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:10:46 +0000, Alec McKenzie
wrote: Unless the charges apply during a certain time and outside of that time no parking is permitted at all. Unlikely, but possible. I would say that "no parking is permitted at all" is quite a severe restriction! Indeed - though it does exist. There are (or were) some spaces near Milton Keynes central shopping centre where parking is not permitted at all by anyone between something like 7:30am-9:30am to stop employees parking there and thus to keep some spaces near the centre available for shoppers. Neil |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
In message , at 23:30:41 on Fri, 19
Nov 2004, Neil Williams remarked: Unless the charges apply during a certain time and outside of that time no parking is permitted at all. Unlikely, but possible. I would say that "no parking is permitted at all" is quite a severe restriction! Indeed - though it does exist. There are (or were) some spaces near Milton Keynes central shopping centre where parking is not permitted at all by anyone between something like 7:30am-9:30am to stop employees parking there and thus to keep some spaces near the centre available for shoppers. Yes, and also very common in streets near commuter railway stations. I first saw it in Shenfield (Essex) about 20 years ago. And there's another situation, which applies to car parks: Some P&R close at night, and ban overnight parking. The ones in Cambridge are either doing this already, or will soon. -- Roland Perry |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
Carlos wrote:
I parked in a pay-and-display area at 17:05. Put £1 in the machine (charge is £1/hr) and the ticket came out valid until 17:30 after which time parking is free. The signage also confirmed that parking is chargeable only between 09:00 - 17:30. Came back to find a parking ticket, time-stamped at 17:36. Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on, aware that a certain percentage probably just pay up. But I want to make a stand and sue the council for wasting my time. Would I be reasonable in charging a £50 admin charge for having to issue an explanatory note..? Cheers The guy made a mistake. Write pointing out the facts. If you letter is not dealt with reasonably and the fine withdrawn, *then* make a fuss. -- Nick H (UK) |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
"Nick H (UK)" wrote in message ... Carlos wrote: I parked in a pay-and-display area at 17:05. Put £1 in the machine (charge is £1/hr) and the ticket came out valid until 17:30 after which time parking is free. The signage also confirmed that parking is chargeable only between 09:00 - 17:30. Came back to find a parking ticket, time-stamped at 17:36. Clearly the parking attendant was trying it on, aware that a certain percentage probably just pay up. But I want to make a stand and sue the council for wasting my time. Would I be reasonable in charging a £50 admin charge for having to issue an explanatory note..? Cheers The guy made a mistake. Write pointing out the facts. If you letter is not dealt with reasonably and the fine withdrawn, *then* make a fuss. I don't think that cancelling the fine is the issue. As the fine is completely without legal justification that will happen automatically that you reach the right person in the chain (which could be as far as an attendance to the mags if the LA are really inefficient). The OP's beef is that he want's to be compensated for his costs (including his time) in reaching that correct person even if that is as simple as writing one letter, and in his position, so would I, but will the LA offer it? tim |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:37:01 -0000, Conor
wrote: In article , Carlos says... But I have to be proactive in disputing this to avoid bailiffs knocking on my door, which means writing a letter, photocopying the tickets, travelling to town in my lunchbreak and queuing for 20 minutes to send it recorded delivery........ You have to accept it as part of being stupid enough to live in London. Not just London. Had the a similar problem at Luton Station the other day. Got a ticket from the pea brain attendant there and had to fight it. Won though Keith J Chesworth www.unseenlondon.co.uk www.blackpooltram.co.uk www.happysnapper.com www.boilerbill.com - main site www.amerseyferry.co.uk |
Suing for frivolous parking ticket
Keith J Chesworth wrote:
Not just London. Had the a similar problem at Luton Station the other day. Got a ticket from the pea brain attendant there and had to fight it. Won though What is the position if the parking restriction is on Railway property, rather than the public road? Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
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