Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than 330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of
negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates, pay
structures, hours and conditions.


Press release from the RMT today:

A year after RMT won a £2,000 interim payment for signalling and
service-control grades, and six months after a working party began detailed
talks, LUL has demanded 14 per cent reduction in jobs, lengthening of
shifts, reduction in minimum rest-periods and other "unacceptable" strings.

"These talks were supposed to be about improving conditions, not worsening
them," said RMT general secretary Bob Crow today.

"Signalling and control staff have now been waiting for four years to see
pay parity with drivers restored, a 35-hour week and other long-standing
problems resolved.

"After six months of talks we were told that the price of restructuring is
76 jobs, the lengthening of shifts and a host of other strings that are
frankly unacceptable.

"LUL might see this as flexibility, but for our members it adds up to a huge
step backwards, and the RMT executive has today authorised a ballot for
strike action," Bob Crow said.

"Twelve hours is simply too long for anyone to be in charge of a signal box
or control panel, but that is what the company wants," said assistant
general secretary Pat Sikorski.

"Safety critical staff need sufficient guaranteed rest time between shifts,
but LUL also wants to cut minimum rest time from 12 to 11 hours and to vary
shift start times by up to four hours at short notice.

"When it came to pay we were happy to negotiate a unified and simplified pay
scale, but by 'red-circling' individuals outside the new structure the
company is attempting to use it as a downgrading exercise," Pat Sikorski
said.

ends

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

In article ,
Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Press release from the RMT today:

Christmas is approaching fast, and we're way behind on the shopping. We
need to ensure that our members can get it all done in one day without the
shops being too overcrowded.

Dave
--
Email: MSN Messenger:

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

You are a silly billy Dave.

"David Marshall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Press release from the RMT today:

Christmas is approaching fast, and we're way behind on the shopping. We
need to ensure that our members can get it all done in one day without the
shops being too overcrowded.

Dave
--
Email: MSN Messenger:

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than
330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of

negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates,
pay
structures, hours and conditions.

Oh what a surprise , its almost christmas and theres a possible strike
on
the underground.

Given the amount of strikes on the underground recently this leads
to 2 conclusions:

A) LU is one of the worst blue collar employers in the country and the
staff
are living a wretched existense despite the high pay rates and easy
hours or

B) The people who work for it are some of the most greedy, work shy,
selfish
and bone idle ******* in britain who are about as much in touch with
workplace
reality as Timothy Leary on a bad trip.
So lets have a survey. Why is it all you LU people? A or B?

B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than
330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of

negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates,
pay
structures, hours and conditions.

Oh what a surprise , its almost christmas and theres a possible strike
on
the underground.

Given the amount of strikes on the underground recently this leads
to 2 conclusions:

A) LU is one of the worst blue collar employers in the country and the
staff
are living a wretched existense despite the high pay rates and easy
hours or

B) The people who work for it are some of the most greedy, work shy,
selfish
and bone idle ******* in britain who are about as much in touch with
workplace
reality as Timothy Leary on a bad trip.
So lets have a survey. Why is it all you LU people? A or B?

B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Oh dear poor Boltar...you have a stutter.

Actually its neither of those. Life isnt quite so simple as an A or B
response.
I think the press release puts it quite succinctly.
Plainly the signallers and control centre people see it one way and LU see
it another. I am sure some discussion will see it all blow over and it will
all be a big misunderstanding.
Perhaps the LU management and staff are much more in touch with good
industrial relations and negotiation than you think.

Cant wait for your response.......


"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than
330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of

negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates,
pay
structures, hours and conditions.

Oh what a surprise , its almost christmas and theres a possible strike
on
the underground.

Given the amount of strikes on the underground recently this leads
to 2 conclusions:

A) LU is one of the worst blue collar employers in the country and the
staff
are living a wretched existense despite the high pay rates and easy
hours or

B) The people who work for it are some of the most greedy, work shy,
selfish
and bone idle ******* in britain who are about as much in touch with
workplace
reality as Timothy Leary on a bad trip.
So lets have a survey. Why is it all you LU people? A or B?

B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than 330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of
negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates, pay
structures, hours and conditions.


Press release from the RMT today:

A year after RMT won a £2,000 interim payment for signalling and
service-control grades, and six months after a working party began
detailed talks, LUL has demanded 14 per cent reduction in jobs,
lengthening of shifts, reduction in minimum rest-periods and other
"unacceptable" strings.

snip


"When it came to pay we were happy to negotiate a unified and simplified
pay scale, but by 'red-circling' individuals outside the new structure the
company is attempting to use it as a downgrading exercise," Pat Sikorski
said.

ends



For public transport, they sure do hate the public. This really, really
annoys me. I'm so fed up of being a pawn in this stupid game between the
RMT and LUL. Why do they close the service? Don't they care that us, the
people who pay their wages, are getting our lives screwed up on an
increasingly regular basis?

If they really DO care about the public, the union workers should strike
like they do in Dublin. In Dublin, during industrial action, public
transport workers stop charging people fares. The company gets a financial
wake-up call, AND it's a gift to the very public they're supposedly trying
to serve.

Anyway, after all the stuff the RMT has been given, more threats of
industrial action aren't sitting too well. One gets the feeling they are
trying to get all they can, whether they deserve it or not. I'm sure that's
not the case, though.

sorry if this offends anyone, but I don't like walking to work.

d.

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

How about they try good ol' diplomacy? Instead, they act selfishly, and
screw over the public. Repeatedly. Am I the only person who finds this
disgusting?

I'm all for unions. I've seen how they can get workers the rewards they
deserve. I've also seen how they get greedy and take more. I'd hate to
think the RMT is the second type, but with more and more industrial action
threats flying about, it's getting harder to think otherwise.

d.

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
Oh dear poor Boltar...you have a stutter.

Actually its neither of those. Life isnt quite so simple as an A or B
response.
I think the press release puts it quite succinctly.
Plainly the signallers and control centre people see it one way and LU see
it another. I am sure some discussion will see it all blow over and it
will all be a big misunderstanding.
Perhaps the LU management and staff are much more in touch with good
industrial relations and negotiation than you think.

Cant wait for your response.......


"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
LUL signal and control staff to ballot after talks fail - 6 Dec 2004

DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than
330
signallers and line controllers for strike action after six months of

negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute over pay rates,
pay
structures, hours and conditions.

Oh what a surprise , its almost christmas and theres a possible strike
on
the underground.

Given the amount of strikes on the underground recently this leads
to 2 conclusions:

A) LU is one of the worst blue collar employers in the country and the
staff
are living a wretched existense despite the high pay rates and easy
hours or

B) The people who work for it are some of the most greedy, work shy,
selfish
and bone idle ******* in britain who are about as much in touch with
workplace
reality as Timothy Leary on a bad trip.
So lets have a survey. Why is it all you LU people? A or B?

B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

What is it the RMT have been given?

Anyway, after all the stuff the RMT has been given, more threats of
industrial action aren't sitting too well. One gets the feeling they are
trying to get all they can, whether they deserve it or not. I'm sure
that's not the case, though.

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

In article , d
writes
DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than 330
signallers and line controllers for strike action
[...]
For public transport, they sure do hate the public. This really, really
annoys me. I'm so fed up of being a pawn in this stupid game between the
RMT and LUL. Why do they close the service?

What other options do signallers and line controllers have?

Don't they care that us, the
people who pay their wages, are getting our lives screwed up on an
increasingly regular basis?

I suspect they care more - assuming the report is true - that *their*
lives are about to be screwed up by less pay and longer hours.

If they really DO care about the public, the union workers should strike
like they do in Dublin. In Dublin, during industrial action, public
transport workers stop charging people fares.

Signallers and line controllers don't have anything to do with fare
collection. If those staff who do collect fares got involved, they'd be
breaking the laws about unions.

The company gets a financial
wake-up call, AND it's a gift to the very public they're supposedly trying
to serve.

Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would
only travel if they don't have to pay.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong but it says: "after six months of
negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute"....

Like you, I am not involved in the nitty gritty, but if thats true how much
diplomacy is the right amount?


"d" wrote in message
. uk...
How about they try good ol' diplomacy? Instead, they act selfishly, and
screw over the public. Repeatedly. Am I the only person who finds this
disgusting?

I'm all for unions. I've seen how they can get workers the rewards they
deserve. I've also seen how they get greedy and take more. I'd hate to
think the RMT is the second type, but with more and more industrial action
threats flying about, it's getting harder to think otherwise.

d.

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Judging by the amount of industrial action by this union compared to other
unions, it makes you wonder...

I'm just saying it doesn't look good to people. The same people who have to
endure the strikes.

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong but it says: "after six months of
negotiations failed to resolve a four-year dispute"....

Like you, I am not involved in the nitty gritty, but if thats true how
much diplomacy is the right amount?


"d" wrote in message
. uk...
How about they try good ol' diplomacy? Instead, they act selfishly, and
screw over the public. Repeatedly. Am I the only person who finds this
disgusting?

I'm all for unions. I've seen how they can get workers the rewards they
deserve. I've also seen how they get greedy and take more. I'd hate to
think the RMT is the second type, but with more and more industrial
action threats flying about, it's getting harder to think otherwise.

d.

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Exactly - it wouldn't affect you. It would affect the company, though.
That's the beauty. Why should we suffer over a dispute between two other,
seperate entities? It just strikes me as madness.

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , d
writes
DECEMBER 6: LONDON UNDERGROUND's biggest union is to ballot more than
330
signallers and line controllers for strike action
[...]
For public transport, they sure do hate the public. This really, really
annoys me. I'm so fed up of being a pawn in this stupid game between the
RMT and LUL. Why do they close the service?

What other options do signallers and line controllers have?

Don't they care that us, the
people who pay their wages, are getting our lives screwed up on an
increasingly regular basis?

I suspect they care more - assuming the report is true - that *their*
lives are about to be screwed up by less pay and longer hours.

If they really DO care about the public, the union workers should strike
like they do in Dublin. In Dublin, during industrial action, public
transport workers stop charging people fares.

Signallers and line controllers don't have anything to do with fare
collection. If those staff who do collect fares got involved, they'd be
breaking the laws about unions.

The company gets a financial
wake-up call, AND it's a gift to the very public they're supposedly trying
to serve.

Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would only
travel if they don't have to pay.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would
only travel if they don't have to pay.

Eh? If you have an annual season ticket, you may not lose out
financially but you will certainly pay in time and inconvenience if your
regular service doesn't run. It may well affect the ability of some
workers to earn overtime if their commuting journeys take longer. I'm
sure there are also many people who use the Tube for non-leisure
purposes but who do not have the same journey every day. They *will* be
affected, and it may reduce their income or increase their costs if
they're self-employed.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Generally speaking, in the past any strike action has cost more to the
employee in pay lost than they recoup from an increase in wages. So perhaps
they do it because they have a principle to adhere to.


"Richard J." wrote in message
.uk...
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would
only travel if they don't have to pay.

Eh? If you have an annual season ticket, you may not lose out
financially but you will certainly pay in time and inconvenience if your
regular service doesn't run. It may well affect the ability of some
workers to earn overtime if their commuting journeys take longer. I'm
sure there are also many people who use the Tube for non-leisure
purposes but who do not have the same journey every day. They *will* be
affected, and it may reduce their income or increase their costs if
they're self-employed.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Generally speaking, in the past any strike action has cost more to
the employee in pay lost than they recoup from an increase in
wages. So perhaps they do it because they have a principle to
adhere to.

That's true of a few maybe. The rest strike because they couldn't be
bothered to vote in the ballot. I can never understand why so few union
members vote when, as you say, they stand to lose more than they gain.
I hope the signallers and line controllers actually vote this time.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

Actually its neither of those. Life isnt quite so simple as an A or B
response.

Oh I think it is in this case. The RMT have seen an opportunity to
screw LU because its xmas time and
they know it'll be bad public relations to have a strike then.

it another. I am sure some discussion will see it all blow over and it
will
all be a big misunderstanding.

What , like all the others? Dream on.

Perhaps the LU management and staff are much more in touch with good
industrial relations and negotiation than you think.

LU management might be , but the RMT woudln't know good industrial
relations
if it was served up on a plate in front of them with a large
explanatory notice written
in crayon.

B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

What other options do signallers and line controllers have?

Perhaps they could just get on with the jobs they're damn well paid to
do and
knew the conditions for before they signed up. You know, like most
other working people
in this country do? Or are RMT members exempt from working to a signed
contract?

I suspect they care more - assuming the report is true - that *their*
lives are about to be screwed up by less pay and longer hours.

Ok , lets do this in simple english for the people who can't grasp
simple working law.
They will have signed a contract when they joined LU. If the contract
doesn't allow LU
to change their working conditions then they can take LU to court (and
the fact that they
haven't done so in apparently 6 months says it all). If the contract
DOES allow it then
thats just tough luck, they can either put up or shut up and if they
don't like it they
can eff off and get a job elsewhere. McDonalds always has vacancies.
B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

All these people are highly skilled proffesionals (that should get you
going!). LUL want to change something, control centre staff are happy for
that to happen. Its just a case of both getting what they want.

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
What other options do signallers and line controllers have?

Perhaps they could just get on with the jobs they're damn well paid to
do and
knew the conditions for before they signed up. You know, like most
other working people
in this country do? Or are RMT members exempt from working to a signed
contract?

I suspect they care more - assuming the report is true - that *their*
lives are about to be screwed up by less pay and longer hours.

Ok , lets do this in simple english for the people who can't grasp
simple working law.
They will have signed a contract when they joined LU. If the contract
doesn't allow LU
to change their working conditions then they can take LU to court (and
the fact that they
haven't done so in apparently 6 months says it all). If the contract
DOES allow it then
thats just tough luck, they can either put up or shut up and if they
don't like it they
can eff off and get a job elsewhere. McDonalds always has vacancies.
B2003

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

In article , Richard
J. writes
Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would
only travel if they don't have to pay.
Eh? If you have an annual season ticket, you may not lose out
financially but you will certainly pay in time and inconvenience if your
regular service doesn't run.

You missed the point. The previous post said that a ticket-checking
embargo would benefit passengers. It will *not* benefit the vast
majority of regular travellers, just those who pay per journey (and
therefore might well not have travelled if the embargo wasn't
happening).

Yes, an actual strike (of signallers, in this case) will affect me
adversely. However, if it's justified (something I don't have enough
information to determine), then I will grin and bear it.

[Older readers may wish to note my name.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...

The previous post said that a ticket-checking
embargo would benefit passengers. It will *not*
benefit the vast majority of regular travellers,
just those who pay per journey (and therefore
might well not have travelled if the embargo
wasn't happening).

A strike of ticket-checkers would *adversely* affect regular passengers,
since a large number of them would not be able to fit on their usual trains,
unless boarding the train at its origin.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Oh dear.....I'm sure it wont happen.
 

LUL management have pointed out that it is a breach of any employees
contract not to operate the gates and check tickets. Therefore if staff were
to leave gates open they could face disciplinary action. As they wont have
the protection of a strike and the associated union backing....they cant do
it.

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , Richard J.
writes
Since I have an annual season ticket, it doesn't affect me. It won't
affect the vast majority of regular travellers, just those who would
only travel if they don't have to pay.
Eh? If you have an annual season ticket, you may not lose out
financially but you will certainly pay in time and inconvenience if your
regular service doesn't run.

You missed the point. The previous post said that a ticket-checking
embargo would benefit passengers. It will *not* benefit the vast majority
of regular travellers, just those who pay per journey (and therefore might
well not have travelled if the embargo wasn't happening).

Yes, an actual strike (of signallers, in this case) will affect me
adversely. However, if it's justified (something I don't have enough
information to determine), then I will grin and bear it.

[Older readers may wish to note my name.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: