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London's busiest level crossing?
Because I'm that sort of person, this question has
been bugging me for a while. Where is London's busiest level crossing in terms of off-peak weekday trains per hour? Where ever in London it is, is it the busiest level crossing in the UK? In Europe? Anywhere? By level crossing, I mean where a railway line crosses a public road on the level -- depots, tracks between fields, pedestrian crossings and such don't count. Your suggestions greatly appreciated, Matt Ashby www.mattashby.com |
London's busiest level crossing?
In message , Barry Salter
writes On 13 Dec 2004 14:13:54 -0800, wrote: Because I'm that sort of person, this question has been bugging me for a while. Where is London's busiest level crossing in terms of off-peak weekday trains per hour? Where ever in London it is, is it the busiest level crossing in the UK? In Europe? Anywhere? A post on the UK Roads forum suggests Manor Road, Richmond, (adjacent to North Sheen station) as a possibility. If that is so (and I think it likely) then the level crossings at Sheen Lane (adjacent to Mortlake station), White Hart Lane and Vine Road are equal contenders since all four are on the same stretch of line. Having four level crossings in close succession on a line that busy is probably some kind of record. -- Paul Terry |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
... In message , Barry Salter writes On 13 Dec 2004 14:13:54 -0800, wrote: Because I'm that sort of person, this question has been bugging me for a while. Where is London's busiest level crossing in terms of off-peak weekday trains per hour? Where ever in London it is, is it the busiest level crossing in the UK? In Europe? Anywhere? A post on the UK Roads forum suggests Manor Road, Richmond, (adjacent to North Sheen station) as a possibility. If that is so (and I think it likely) then the level crossings at Sheen Lane (adjacent to Mortlake station), White Hart Lane and Vine Road are equal contenders since all four are on the same stretch of line. Having four level crossings in close succession on a line that busy is probably some kind of record. Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Martin Underwood" wrote
Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Henry" wrote in message
... "Martin Underwood" wrote Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? The pair I'm thinking of are much closer than this. I'd estimate about 50 metres. I'll also add a second category: closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of railway between them. |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
Martin Underwood wrote:
Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. Isn't there some near Richmond where the line diverges, or the NLL comes in next to the SWT lines? I see something like that last week when I was on a JOP heading towards Richmond/Reading -- Darren Sudbury Branch Line website: http://www.sudbury-branchline.co.uk http://photos.darrenjohnson.co.uk |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , Henry writes
"Martin Underwood" wrote Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? Vine Road, Barnes - there's room for only about 6 cars between the level crossing on the Hounslow loop line and the level crossing on the Windsor line: http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...le=5000&icon=x -- Paul Terry |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
... In message , Henry writes "Martin Underwood" wrote Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? Vine Road, Barnes - there's room for only about 6 cars between the level crossing on the Hounslow loop line and the level crossing on the Windsor line: http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...le=5000&icon=x That's the one I was thinking of - unless anyone can think of a pair of crossings that are even closer than that. |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In article ,
Martin Underwood writes Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. Not London, but at Queen Adelaide, north of Ely, there are *three* crossings in quick succession on the B1382, as the line splits into three (the Ely Loop doesn't have one, unfortunately, or there'd be four in a row). The sequence is about 500m in total, with the western pair much closer than the eastern pair. There's a level crossing (Helpston) right where the Peterborough-Leicester line diverges from the ECML. I can't recall whether it has one set of barriers or two, though. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Henry writes "Martin Underwood" wrote Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? Vine Road, Barnes - there's room for only about 6 cars between the level crossing on the Hounslow loop line and the level crossing on the Windsor line: http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...le=5000&icon=x Not forgetting the two in Bollo Lane Acton just south of South Acton station. http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=...=newsearch.srf |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ... There's a level crossing (Helpston) right where the Peterborough-Leicester line diverges from the ECML. I can't recall whether it has one set of barriers or two, though. That's Maxey Road, Helpston. Most of the crossings between Peterborough and Helpston used to have a set of GN gates and a set of MR gates (I don't recall there being two sets at Woodcroft BICBW). I remember when I was a kid and my father used to take me up to (what was then) Walton crossing, where the large concrete footbridge now crosses the tracks, to watch A4s and Deltics in full flight. At that location there was a GN signalbox to the north-east of the GN crossing and a smaller MR box between the ECML and the Midland lines, both controlling gated crossings. The space between the two crossings would accommodate, at most, two or three cars and it was not uncommon to get trapped in the middle with it being such a busy crossing (prior to the construction of Soke Parkway in 1971 it was the main route across the ECML between Westwood Bridge and Helpston. The crossing was one of the first in the Peterborough area to be barriered, in about 1967 IIRC, controlled from the GN box initially and then latterly from the new monitor box that was built on the south side of the crossing between the former GN and MR lines, when the 1972 remodelling and resignalling of the Peterborough area took place. |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
... Vine Road, Barnes - there's room for only about 6 cars between the level crossing on the Hounslow loop line and the level crossing on the Windsor line: http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...le=5000&icon=x That's the one I was thinking of - unless anyone can think of a pair of crossings that are even closer than that. In Nottingham a road crosses an adjacent railway and tramline. I think that both lines are single track, being a former double track railway, but I might be wrong there. There are barriers around the railway but the tramway is ungated - this is because the tramline is too frequent to have a gated crossing. I don't think there is room for even one car between the tramline and the railway. (This is all hearsay, I have neve been there or seen written confirmation). -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
London's busiest level crossing?
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London's busiest level crossing?
Colin McKenzie wrote:
There was a crossing in Japan, though I can't recall where, on about an 8-track railway, with frequent services on all lines. The gate spent most of the time down, and if you tried to walk across you didn't usually get to the other side before the start of the next closure warning. I would guess something like 60 tph overall. "Wheeee! Let's play chicken with the trains!" Not. Surely an underbirdge would be more efficient? |
London's busiest level crossing?
"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
... There was a crossing in Japan, though I can't recall where, on about an 8-track railway, with frequent services on all lines. The gate spent most of the time down, That sounds like a lot, until you remember that most traffic lights are red most of the time. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
London's busiest level crossing?
In article . com,
TheOneKEA writes Colin McKenzie wrote: There was a crossing in Japan, though I can't recall where, on about an 8-track railway, with frequent services on all lines. The gate spent most of the time down, and if you tried to walk across you didn't usually get to the other side before the start of the next closure warning. I would guess something like 60 tph overall. "Wheeee! Let's play chicken with the trains!" Not. Surely an underbirdge would be more efficient? under what? -- Thoss |
London's busiest level crossing?
"thoss" wrote in message
... In article . com, TheOneKEA writes Colin McKenzie wrote: There was a crossing in Japan, though I can't recall where, on about an 8-track railway, with frequent services on all lines. The gate spent most of the time down, and if you tried to walk across you didn't usually get to the other side before the start of the next closure warning. I would guess something like 60 tph overall. "Wheeee! Let's play chicken with the trains!" Not. Surely an underbirdge would be more efficient? under what? Presumably road under railway. If the crossing is handling 60 tph, I wonder how many cars per hour it can allow across the crossing - I'd have thought the barriers would be down almost 100% of each hour. |
London's busiest level crossing?
Martin Underwood wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 15 Dec 2004:
Presumably road under railway. More likely to build road-bridge over railway; it can happen - back in the 1940s they had started to build a bridge over the then Southern railway line at Goring-by-sea and then for some reason (war? Economy? Planning consent) it was never finished. Traffic had to use the level-crossing, as before. You could always see where it would have been, as they had made a roundabout at its foot, leading nowhere! Then quite suddenly, I suppose about 15-20 years ago now, they built the bridge and the level-crossing, although still there, is only really used by cars going to the station car-park from south of the line. If the crossing is handling 60 tph, I wonder how many cars per hour it can allow across the crossing - I'd have thought the barriers would be down almost 100% of each hour. The mind boggles! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 12 December 2004 |
London's busiest level crossing?
In article ,
Martin Underwood writes Surely an underbirdge would be more efficient? under what? Presumably road under railway. If the crossing is handling 60 tph, I wonder how many cars per hour it can allow across the crossing - I'd have thought the barriers would be down almost 100% of each hour. I was really wondering what a birdge is! -- Thoss |
London's busiest level crossing?
In article ,
Martin Underwood writes Surely an underbirdge would be more efficient? under what? Presumably road under railway. I was really wondering what a birdge is! -- Thoss |
London's busiest level crossing?
In ,
thoss typed: I was really wondering what a birdge is! What? For 11 whole minutes?? Bob |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In article ,
John Rowland wrote: In Nottingham a road crosses an adjacent railway and tramline. I think that both lines are single track, being a former double track railway, but I might be wrong there. There are barriers around the railway but the tramway is ungated - this is because the tramline is too frequent to have a gated crossing. I don't think there is room for even one car between the tramline and the railway. (This is all hearsay, I have neve been there or seen written confirmation). The first picture I can lay my hands on is at http://www.nettrams.net/PictureGalle...s/WSBUP09F.htm which suggests the yellow box and zig zags extend across the tramline outside the barriers, as well as the NR line inside. So cars must not stop there - especially since there is as you say no room ! Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , Nick Leverton
writes The first picture I can lay my hands on is at http://www.nettrams.net/PictureGalle...s/WSBUP09F.htm which suggests the yellow box and zig zags extend across the tramline outside the barriers, as well as the NR line inside. So cars must not stop there - especially since there is as you say no room ! With both tracks on the picture having identical platforms and overhead wiring I'd suggest this is the wrong picture and is double tram track, certainly the insulators aren't big enough for 25Kv. -- Clive. |
London's busiest level crossing?
In message , Mrs Redboots
writes The mind boggles! -- "Mrs Redboots" Would you be a fan of the "Perishers" ? -- Clive. |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In article ,
Clive Coleman wrote: In message , Nick Leverton writes The first picture I can lay my hands on is at http://www.nettrams.net/PictureGalle...s/WSBUP09F.htm which suggests the yellow box and zig zags extend across the tramline outside the barriers, as well as the NR line inside. So cars must not stop there - especially since there is as you say no room ! With both tracks on the picture having identical platforms and overhead wiring I'd suggest this is the wrong picture and is double tram track, certainly the insulators aren't big enough for 25Kv. Not sure what's wrong about it but you're correct about the tram line, and to the right of it is the double track non-electrified Robin Hood line (the nearside barriers can be seen). Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself |
London's busiest level crossing?
Clive Coleman wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:
In message , Mrs Redboots writes The mind boggles! -- "Mrs Redboots" Would you be a fan of the "Perishers" ? Not especially. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 12 December 2004 |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , at 17:41:47 on Tue,
14 Dec 2004, John Rowland remarked: In Nottingham a road crosses an adjacent railway and tramline. I think that both lines are single track, being a former double track railway, but I might be wrong there. Both are double track. The tramline has been newly built to the west. There are barriers around the railway but the tramway is ungated - this is because the tramline is too frequent to have a gated crossing. The trams don't have barriers at any road "crossing", that's the way trams are. -- Roland Perry |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk... In message , at 17:41:47 on Tue, 14 Dec 2004, John Rowland remarked: In Nottingham a road crosses an adjacent railway and tramline. I think that both lines are single track, being a former double track railway, but I might be wrong there. Both are double track. The tramline has been newly built to the west. Thanks. There are barriers around the railway but the tramway is ungated - this is because the tramline is too frequent to have a gated crossing. The trams don't have barriers at any road "crossing", that's the way trams are. It was originally proposed that the tramline would be inside the barriers. This was scrapped because of the high frequency of the trams. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , Roland
Perry writes The trams don't have barriers at any road "crossing", that's the way trams are. http://www.nettrams.net/PictureGalle...s/BUHUP04F.htm -- Paul Terry |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , at 09:53:42 on Fri,
17 Dec 2004, John Rowland remarked: It was originally proposed that the tramline would be inside the barriers. This was scrapped because of the high frequency of the trams. There's about one every 8 minutes - hardly "high" frequency. But as I said, there are no barriers at any of the other hundred or so places that the tram intersects a road, so why would this one be special? -- Roland Perry |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In message , at 11:12:16 on Fri, 17 Dec
2004, Paul Terry remarked: The trams don't have barriers at any road "crossing", that's the way trams are. http://www.nettrams.net/PictureGallery/PGDriverView/DVPages/BUHUP04F.htm Those are primarily for the railway line, but congratulations you have provided the classic Usenet-counterexample. Now go look at all the other places with no barriers throughout the City Centre. -- Roland Perry |
London's busiest level crossing?
Hi Guys,
My old stomping ground, London Bridge Signalling Area has a manned level crossing at Charlton Lane near Charlton. This surely is the busiest Crossing Keeper job. There are a total of 12 trains per hour or more if the extra freight and loco movements are included, during off peak weekdays and saturdays, this can increase to 24 during the peak periods due to extra services and empty stock going to or coming from Slade Green Depot and if memory serves me well it does exceed this at one point in the morning peak, if all services run. Christine On 13 Dec 2004 14:13:54 -0800, wrote: Because I'm that sort of person, this question has been bugging me for a while. Where is London's busiest level crossing in terms of off-peak weekday trains per hour? Where ever in London it is, is it the busiest level crossing in the UK? In Europe? Anywhere? By level crossing, I mean where a railway line crosses a public road on the level -- depots, tracks between fields, pedestrian crossings and such don't count. Your suggestions greatly appreciated, Matt Ashby www.mattashby.com Life without sex just isn't life. Make love not war! |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:53:42 on Fri, 17 Dec 2004, John Rowland remarked: It was originally proposed that the tramline would be inside the barriers. This was scrapped because of the high frequency of the trams. There's about one every 8 minutes - hardly "high" frequency. But as I said, there are no barriers at any of the other hundred or so places that the tram intersects a road, so why would this one be special? I understood the concern was that cars might queue across the tramline when the heavy rail barriers came down. This is a very busy crossing for road traffic. I didn't read why this one ended up with barriers only for heavy rail, yet the less busy one at Carey Road has the tramline inside the barriers. The latter crossing is of course two single tracks where David Lane is two double tracks. I could well believe it was just the ease of conversion, keeping the barriers in the same place as when the Robin Hood line occuppied the whole trackbed. Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
"Nick Leverton" wrote in message
... In article , Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:53:42 on Fri, 17 Dec 2004, John Rowland remarked: It was originally proposed that the tramline would be inside the barriers. This was scrapped because of the high frequency of the trams. There's about one every 8 minutes - hardly "high" frequency. But as I said, there are no barriers at any of the other hundred or so places that the tram intersects a road, so why would this one be special? I understood the concern was that cars might queue across the tramline when the heavy rail barriers came down. This is a very busy crossing for road traffic. I didn't read why this one ended up with barriers only for heavy rail, yet the less busy one at Carey Road has the tramline inside the barriers. The latter crossing is of course two single tracks where David Lane is two double tracks. I could well believe it was just the ease of conversion, keeping the barriers in the same place as when the Robin Hood line occuppied the whole trackbed. That may be an issue, but AFAIK the main issue was that there is a tram junction between the two crossings, and one of the crossings has significantly more trams than the other. At the crossing with fewer trams, the tramlines are inside the barriers, whereas at the crossing with more trams the tram tracks were required to be outside the barriers, pothrerwise the barriers would be closed for too much of the time. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
In article ,
John Rowland wrote: just the ease of conversion, keeping the barriers in the same place as when the Robin Hood line occuppied the whole trackbed. That may be an issue, but AFAIK the main issue was that there is a tram junction between the two crossings, and one of the crossings has significantly more trams than the other. At the crossing with fewer trams, the tramlines are inside the barriers, whereas at the crossing with more trams the tram tracks were required to be outside the barriers, pothrerwise the barriers would be closed for too much of the time. One of the pics referred to somewhere up there said the latter barriers went up and down like a bride's nightie .... *searching wildly for utl relevance* It's a good thing TABAWTKB didn't have a level crossing ! Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
if memory serves me correct( and I havent been to London since 1997)
the tracks for the Piccadilly line and District line are right next to each other at Acton Town "Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message ... In article , (Brimstone) wrote: Paul Terry wrote: In message , Henry writes "Martin Underwood" wrote Can I ask a supplementary question? Whereabouts in London (or even in the whole of Britain) is the closest pair of level crossings in terms of the length of road (not railway) between them? I'm talking about separate crossings with separate sets of barriers. I can think of a pair which are very close, but I want to see if you suggest the same ones. To kick this one off Martin. There are two in Crawley about 500 metres apart. I can't imagine that they are the closest though - any better out there? Vine Road, Barnes - there's room for only about 6 cars between the level crossing on the Hounslow loop line and the level crossing on the Windsor line: http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...ale=5000&icon= x Not forgetting the two in Bollo Lane Acton just south of South Acton station. http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=...=520250,179250 &st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.sr f The number of trains per off-peak hour is somewhat fewer there than at Barnes, however. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London's closest pair of level crossings?
Ed Webb wrote:
In article , (Brimstone) wrote: Not forgetting the two in Bollo Lane Acton just south of South Acton station. http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=...=520250,179250 &st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.sr f [I assume your comments were in response to the above, but as you top-posted, this was not clear.] if memory serves me correct( and I havent been to London since 1997) the tracks for the Piccadilly line and District line are right next to each other at Acton Town True, but there are no level crossings over them. The Bollo Lane crossings that Brimstone referred to are on the North London Line and the Kew East-South Acton freight link. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
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