1577+2260 wrote:
On 16 Dec 2004 05:30:41 -0800, wrote:


The trains that usually run that line are class 455's. They are
externally identical to the 317's except 317's are built for
outer-suburban use and have better interiors.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a class 458

'juniper'

unit which believe it or not is already in it's last days of

operation.

Sorry, I'm no good at identifying these trains - I did a Google image
search and picked the ones that looked appropriate. It would be easier
if the darn things had an obvious reference like cars - Astra, Mondeo,
Megane etc written on the side or back.


They do - the number ;-)

Generally the *set* number (on the front, as opposed to the individual
car numbers on the side) starts with the class number, although on the
southern routes it's often only the last digit of the class. So 455s
tend to have set numbers 5xxx, although I believe at least one
company's refurbs are to be numbered the full 455xxx.

Big difference between a 455 and 317 is that 455s run on third rail
and 317s run on overhead power supply. So if there are no wires it's a
455!

Difference between a Juniper (class 458) and Desiro (class 444 or
450): Junipers have flat sloping fronts with retractable gangways - so
the centre of the front has no windows IIRC. Desiros look more curved
at the front, and have 'proper' gangways.


If the 'Junipers' were used occaisonally on the Waterloo to Reading
Service, with the Orange Dot Matric LED display showing destination on
the front of the train, then I'm not talking about those.


These days Junipers are very common on Waterloo-Reading - it's their
main route.


Junipers also have windows that can be opened, Desiros have fixed
glazing. Junipers, will, hopefully, soon be identified by a (X) (X in a
circle) mark whitewashed on the side.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a
class 458 'juniper' unit which believe it or not is
already in it's last days of operation.

I saw a blue Desiro on the down line at Richomd yesterday
evening with it's side destination displays showing
'Hounslow'.

I've also seen them all of a sudden on the Windsor ER
service. They're a great improvement over the 455s
that worked that route which -- with no toilets, bike
space or wheelchair room -- were worse than the
slam-doors which preceded them and may well be
the worst trains ever produced by human hand.
Very impressed with the Desiros indeed!


Matt Ashby

S. Endon-Lee wrote:
With the coming of the revamped timetable for South West Trains,
I've just experienced what I believe to be a Desiro on the Hounslow
loop. Seems like a nice interior, but we'll see how it puts up with
the vandals. The loo designed to accommodate the requirements of
disabled people was out of use. Ride quality was odd compared to
the ?317s used previously - it seemed to be far more badly affected
by track imperfections that the 317: it didn't jolt, but swayed and
rolled more like being on board ship.

Anyway, the odd thing was that I was on an eight car train, but only
the doors in the front four cars were enabled at Wandsworth Town,
Barnes, Kew Bridge and Isleworth on the way out from Waterloo. The
reason given was short platforms - or in other words, as the
platforms hadn't changed, the train was too long for the platforms.

I was on the 19:22 Waterloo to Weybridge via Brentford tonight, which
was an 8-coach Desiro (Class 450). There was no problem with all the
doors opening at stations as far as Chiswick (where I alighted). There
was a platform announcement being made as I alighted about passengers
for Chertsey (I think) having to use the front 4 cars. Your problems at
Wandsworth Town etc. must have been some sort of fault with the train.

I found the ride very comfortable, much more so than the 455s. Dwell
times seemed longer than the 455s, perhaps because all the bleeping from
the doors gets tiresome. Not only do we have to have bleeps before they
open and before they close and while they're closing and for a second or
two after they've closed, but we also have to endure what I assume are
the right-away signal from the guard and the acknowledgement from the
driver. It wasn't so bad when they were discreet buzzes, but yet
another two high-pitched electronic bleeps are two too many. Why are
they broadcast to all passengers?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


This prompts several questions:

1) How come it wasn't possible to lock out only the rearmost car's
doors? This would be more useful.

2) Surely the platform lengths were known - so why build trains that
are too long, and don't easily accommodate themselves to short
platforms by locking out the minimum number of doors necessary?

3) How long are these trains compared to the older (?317) stock (or
even the slam door stock)?

4) I noticed that the resignalling work a few years ago seemed to
move the stop point (the 8 car/4 car black signs with white 4 or 8
numeral) on several platforms, wasting some of the platform length
- why was this? Surely it makes sense to use all the platform
available?

5) What will the long term solution be? I'm not at all sure the
Isleworth platform can be extended easily or cheaply, as the station
fills the space between two bridges - it looks like major bridge
rebuilding/widening would be needed. Barnes has only recently been
resignalled and had platform work so I'm surprised it's too short.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

Regards,

Sid

Matt Ashby wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

I've also seen them all of a sudden on the Windsor ER
service. They're a great improvement over the 455s
that worked that route which -- with no toilets, bike
space or wheelchair room -- were worse than the
slam-doors which preceded them and may well be
the worst trains ever produced by human hand.
Very impressed with the Desiros indeed!

I really *do* hope the 17.38 (from Clapham Junction) on Monday has a new
train on. They've boringly changed the timetable to be far less
convenient for us - the least they can do is give us a comfortable
train!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

"Mark" wrote in message
...


Datchet is generally served by 455s IIRC, although I did hear talk of
outer suburban (ie Desiro/Juniper) trains being planned for that line.

They're running Desiros to Windsor ER now.

This week I've travelled on 450's, 455's and 458's on the Windsor & Eton
Riverside service.

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

So do mine about how common slam-door trains are on a mid-morning (post
rush-hour) service from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction (I've done
this route frequently enough, and never before have I met a VEP on it),
or a mid-afternoon (pre rush-hour) service from Putney Bridge ditto.

I don't think you meant to write "Putney Bridge"!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

So do mine about how common slam-door trains are on a mid-morning (post
rush-hour) service from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction (I've done
this route frequently enough, and never before have I met a VEP on it),
or a mid-afternoon (pre rush-hour) service from Putney Bridge ditto.

I don't think you meant to write "Putney Bridge"!

Probably not, but if you knew where I meant, why did you have a problem
with it?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 18 December 2004

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

So do mine about how common slam-door trains are on a mid-morning
(post rush-hour) service from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction
(I've done this route frequently enough, and never before have I met
a VEP on it), or a mid-afternoon (pre rush-hour) service from Putney
Bridge ditto.

I don't think you meant to write "Putney Bridge"!

Probably not, but if you knew where I meant, why did you have a problem
with it?

Because Putney Bridge is an Underground station North of the Thames
whereas Putney is an SWT station in Putney. Putney happens to be my home
town.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Assuming your referring to 2U53 1728 London Waterloo to Windsor ER is formed
of 8*450, departs platform 18 from Waterloo

2V51 1737 London Waterloo to Hounslow via Brentford is 4*450


"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Matt Ashby wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

I've also seen them all of a sudden on the Windsor ER
service. They're a great improvement over the 455s
that worked that route which -- with no toilets, bike
space or wheelchair room -- were worse than the
slam-doors which preceded them and may well be
the worst trains ever produced by human hand.
Very impressed with the Desiros indeed!

I really *do* hope the 17.38 (from Clapham Junction) on Monday has a new
train on. They've boringly changed the timetable to be far less
convenient for us - the least they can do is give us a comfortable
train!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

Tim Scott wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

Assuming your referring to 2U53 1728 London Waterloo to Windsor ER is formed
of 8*450, departs platform 18 from Waterloo

Excellent! :-) I shall look forward to it tomorrow. Might even go all
the way from H20WC..... except it's a lot more expensive than going from
CJ.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 18 December 2004