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Trains carried on ships -goods too!
Michael Bell wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004:
In other words, Eurotunnel aren't making enough money out of it. Who would have thought that ferries could beat a tunnel on price and speed? I have a feeling the lorry drivers prefer ferries as they can get a decent break, a meal and perhaps a nap before driving what might be a very long distance indeed on the other side. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... Terry Harper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004: "Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... It may have been disappointing, but it certainly still exists! And I'm not sure how disappointing passenger traffic is, since they run the shuttle service every 20 minutes or thereabouts, and 4 passenger tph through the tunnel - which surely they wouldn't do by now if passenger levels didn't warrant it? I see that Eurotunnel are reducing the number of lorry shuttles considerably, as the increased charges are driving many operators back to the ferries. Still a huge queue of lorries last time we went over a few weeks ago! But then, if they've cut back on lorry-trains, perhaps that's inevitable. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 No cut-back yet, Annabel. The loadings always seem pretty good, apart from certain predictable periods- I had to sit in the loco cab one day last week when coming off shift, as there weren't any seats available in the club-car. Brian (who'll be interested to see how busy it'll be on Christmas afternoon, when he's next on shift..) |
Trains carried on ships
In article ,
Mrs Redboots wrote: The autoroute to Rouen is lovely, especially the "Aire de la Baie de Somme", where we always stop, whether we need to or not! Imagine people going to a service area in the UK if they didn't have to..... I always stop at Tebay even if I don't need to ... though it's got busier now than when it first opened, there's still nowhere else you get such a great view of the WCML ! Nick -- http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself |
Trains carried on ships
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Trains carried on ships -goods too!
In message , Mrs Redboots
writes Michael Bell wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004: In other words, Eurotunnel aren't making enough money out of it. Who would have thought that ferries could beat a tunnel on price and speed? I have a feeling the lorry drivers prefer ferries as they can get a decent break, a meal and perhaps a nap before driving what might be a very long distance indeed on the other side. And it's exactly the same for coach drivers. (Not that they have much influence over the mode of cross-channel transport chosen by a tour operator, of course. But they do prefer the ferry; and so do I.) -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Trains carried on ships
In message , Nick Leverton
writes I always stop at Tebay even if I don't need to ... though it's got busier now than when it first opened, there's still nowhere else you get such a great view of the WCML ! Tebay is my local M/way services, But I yet to find another to rival it apart from prices. -- Clive. |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:17:09 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote: And it's exactly the same for coach drivers. (Not that they have much influence over the mode of cross-channel transport chosen by a tour operator, of course. But they do prefer the ferry; and so do I.) As do I, if I'm travelling with a car. A break from driving (or being a passenger in one of Charlie's favourite little boxes :) ) for some fresh sea air and/or a relaxing cup of coffee. The new Seafrance ship is especially good as the coffee bar has a view out of the front and comfortable seating in the right place to enjoy it. If I'm doing a long train journey I choose Eurostar for the speed and convenience, mind. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
In article , Ian Jelf
wrote: In message , Mrs Redboots writes Michael Bell wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004: In other words, Eurotunnel aren't making enough money out of it. Who would have thought that ferries could beat a tunnel on price and speed? I have a feeling the lorry drivers prefer ferries as they can get a decent break, a meal and perhaps a nap before driving what might be a very long distance indeed on the other side. And it's exactly the same for coach drivers. (Not that they have much influence over the mode of cross-channel transport chosen by a tour operator, of course. But they do prefer the ferry; and so do I.) Yes, I've got to admit that's a factor I hadn't thought of. Michael Bell -- |
Trains carried on ships
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
... Terry Harper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004: I've found it as quick to drive to Dover, take P&O and have breakfast or lunch in Langan's Brasserie, and drive down the Autoroute towards Rouen in recent years, when visiting glass works in the valley of the Bresle. The autoroute to Rouen is lovely, especially the "Aire de la Baie de Somme", where we always stop, whether we need to or not! Imagine people going to a service area in the UK if they didn't have to..... But these days we always take the tunnel. Quite honestly, early experiences on the Newhaven-Dieppe run have put me off ferries for life! I've tried it once, but didn't like the breakfast:-( -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Trains carried on ships
"Alan Osborn" wrote in message ... There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the Night Ferry in c. 1970's - I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London Victoria It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as being French but built to UK loading gauge. The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons. The Night Ferry was carried on the St Germain which was also used as a car ferry (I used it in 1965). I also travelled on it with the Night Ferry in 1980 (having used the connecting boat train). It was replaced in c 1988 by the Nord Pas de Calais, a purpose built trainferry which required two dedicated 33/2s to shunt so the boat stayed upright in the trainferry dock. It was proposed that prohibited tunnel freight would use it after the opening of the same but it now carries lorries only, saw it last month. |
Trains carried on ships
In article , Alan Osborn
wrote: [snip] IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history I have used the Helsingør (Denmark) to Helsingborg (Sweden) ferry (foot passengers and cars, no trains) recently and there was plenty of traffic. I think it will stay open. Michael Bell -- |
Trains carried on ships
Scripsit Alan Osborn
IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history It's already history as far as carrying trains go. The track to the ferry berth at Helsingborg has been paved over, and I'm fairly certain the track at Helsingør has been removed too. The automobile-carrying business goes on unabated, however. Despite the bridge, the route through Helsingør-Helsingborg is quicker and cheaper for car journeys between most of Copenhagen and points in Sweden north of Helsingborg. The bridge link did kill of a number of ferry routes further south in the Sound: The car ferries Dragør-Limhamn and Tuborg-Landskrona, as well as the passenger-only catamarans between Copenhagen and Malmö city centres. -- Henning Makholm "*Vi vil ha wienerbrød!*" |
Trains carried on ships
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:19:28 +0000, Henning Makholm
wrote: Scripsit Alan Osborn IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history I used the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry in the days before the bridge at Malmo with journeys starting in Sweden. The return journeys were a nightmare as the ferries were packed with drunk Swedes who were taking advantage of the cheaper alcohol prices in Denmark. I don't know if it's still as bad but I recommend welly boots if you take the trip! Paul |
Trains carried on ships
"Jonathan Stott" wrote in message ... wrote: I used the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry in the days before the bridge at Malmo with journeys starting in Sweden. The return journeys were a nightmare as the ferries were packed with drunk Swedes who were taking advantage of the cheaper alcohol prices in Denmark. I don't know if it's still as bad but I recommend welly boots if you take the trip! I have been across the bridge three times - twice on trains and once on a coach. Also been across the ferry once too, but didn't see many drunken Swedes - perhaps the unearthly hour of the crossings (5am-ish) might be to blame! Also been across the Putgarden-Roedby ferry a few times and although I didn't see any trains on the ferry (again, unearthly hours!) I was surprised to see the tracks leading up and on to the ferry. I wonder how they manage the marry the tracks on the ferry to the tracks on the land? I believe via a ramp, the Ladybird book said that the low tidal variation made this possible on the Continent but not the UK (although Harwich was a ramp IIRC) I used the through train on this route in 1983 on an Inter-Rail, if you stayed on board there was no need to buy a ferry ticket; you could of course alight on board. |
Trains carried on ships
MartinM wrote: "Alan Osborn" wrote in message ... There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the Night Ferry in c. 1970's - I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London Victoria It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as being French but built to UK loading gauge. The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons. The Night Ferry was carried on the St Germain which was also used as a car ferry (I used it in 1965). I also travelled on it with the Night Ferry in 1980 (having used the connecting boat train). The Dover - Dunkerque service was operated by the St. Germain and the St. Eloi in the 80's. It was replaced in c 1988 by the Nord Pas de Calais, a purpose built trainferry which required two dedicated 33/2s to shunt so the boat stayed upright in the trainferry dock. It was proposed that prohibited tunnel freight would use it after the opening of the same but it now carries lorries only, saw it last month. The Nord Pas de Calais replaced both boats, and was big enough to offer more rail capacity in total, doing a minimum of three round trips a day. It also used a new berth at Dunkerque, which didn't require the previous negotiation of a major lock. This speeded up the crossing time considerably. The small amount of dangerous goods traffic which could not pass through the Tunnel would not have justified keeping the train ferry service going, unfortunately. I don't know what's happened to the St. Germain, on board which I had two notable crossings (amongst many). I sailed on the (former) St. Eloi in about 1993 though, from Heysham to Douglas and back. The rails on the train deck had been filled in and were no longer easily visible. The Chartres also had a rail deck, and was sometimes used as a stand-in when one of the other boats was under maintenance. Cheers Mike |
Trains carried on ships
MartinM wrote: "Jonathan Stott" wrote in message ... Also been across the Putgarden-Roedby ferry a few times and although I didn't see any trains on the ferry (again, unearthly hours!) I was surprised to see the tracks leading up and on to the ferry. I wonder how they manage the marry the tracks on the ferry to the tracks on the land? I believe via a ramp, the Ladybird book said that the low tidal variation made this possible on the Continent but not the UK (although Harwich was a ramp IIRC) It's called a linkspan. It is vertically flexible, but where the tidal variation is too extreme it operates inside a lock, as it did at Dunkerque prior to the opening of the new berth for the Nord Pas de Calais. I used the through train on this route in 1983 on an Inter-Rail, if you stayed on board there was no need to buy a ferry ticket; you could of course alight on board. Inter Rail and any other through rail tickets are usually valid on ferry routes which are included in the CIV, train ferry or not. The Vogelfluglinie (Puttgarden - Roedby) ferries used to be renowned for their food. Both DB and DSB ferries offered a single plate version of a Smoergasbord, but it was a challenge to eat it all before arriving at the other end. The food on the German Ferries (the Deutschland in particular) was better than that on the Danish ones, IME. Cheers Mike |
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